mlrtime99

I took the 4runner camping this weekend on a road that had about 20 miles of washboard and softball sized rocks (Bumble bee for you AZ natives) and I cannot believe how HARSH the ride is. I swear I had to be riding on the bumpstops the whole way. The worse part is I just tossed on some Rancho 5000's (not the best out there but the originals were blown) and was looking forward to some dampening. So I'm thinking my torsion bars have got to be dead, it looks like I've got about a half inch between my lower A arm and the bump stop. I've never had/worked on a 4runner let alone a Toyota before so maybe this is normal?

After I establish that my suspension is crap, I'd be interested in your opinions on well built suspensions not so much for crawling but more of a expedition setup. I plan on lots of road trips (this baby barely has 215k on it ) and would like to stick with 31" or 32" tires while softening the ride up while only adding about an inch or 2 of lift.

For those that will ask, it's a '91 4x4 with 214k miles V6. Campsite was Hazlett, GPS peaked at 6400ft on the trail. It's marked 4x4 only but I'll be damned if a Cavalier didn't pull in later that night (4 people too, it would have been fun following that thing home).

Finally an excuse to get rid of the HT's that came with it.
http://www.benmillertime.com/images/p1010655.jpg

Campsite, vaults only, potable water no longer works since '07 fire
http://www.benmillertime.com/images/p1010671.jpg

Road leading out to northeast of picture
http://www.benmillertime.com/images/p1010694.jpg

Some of the fire swept valley
http://www.benmillertime.com/images/p1010691.jpg

tc

First, it could be that your tbars have sagged a little and need to be "cranked". You will need an alignment after you do it. You can install thinner compression bumpstops (the ones on the bottom) as there is plenty of arc in the CV's going that way.

Next, the best thing on the early IFS is to leave it alone. Start fiddling with it, and you're gonna have problems. Lots of tbar crank, tbar crank + balljoint spacers, etc and you will have issues with steering components.

"Expedition" setup? Yet another on the bandwagon ... to ME, "expedition" doesn't mean "daily driver occasional wheeler" - it means 50 gal gas tanks, multiple spare tires, stuff you need to be out in the bush for months at a time. To ME, it also means long travel IFS, but you're talking pretty serious cash for that upgrade in ride quality.

Matt16

In the second picture, your truck seems to be riding really low. The 225/75s on there seem to be filling the wheel well. Perhaps, the previous owner lowered the front down a bit to compensate for the rear sag.

BLKNBLU

iTrader: (1)

I doubt you're riding the bumpstops. In fact I'll go the opposite route and say you may need to loosen the t bars a little for a softer ride. Cranking the t bars will only make it stiffer, so verify first that you are on your bumps. I have modded my front end so pics of mine will do you no good. IIRC though, my stock bumps were about an inch to an inch and a half from the arms when sitting flat in the garage. I have put in BJ spacers, low profile lower bumps, and relaxed the t bars (probably softer than before the mods) and the ride "may" be a bit better. Regardless, the ride before and after is very rough and I think it's just the nature of the beast with our front end. The only things I've found to really help is to slow down and air down. In my case airing down really helps alot. Especially on the washboard stuff we have here in AZ.

Also want to second TC on alignment required if you adjust the t bar and the less fiddling the better on these. Mine performs well but I probably wouldn't do it again.

Matt16

Have a look at the second picture- there's no way they can be cranked.

904_runner

what size tires are those?

heres mine when it was stock with 31's

BLKNBLU

iTrader: (1)

I agree. I don't think they are cranked, rather they are probably still at the factory setting. I'm just not convinced that adjusting the t bars up is the solution to the problem.

InternetRoadkill

This is my first gen which has new springs and is set to factory ride height for comparison.

Matt16

I don't know why his rig would be riding so harsh at such a low ride height if it weren't for bottoming out. When I did a trip with a blown out front shock, I hit the bumpstops a lot and it was pretty harsh. Now, he says his shocks are new-ish, so the only reason the A arms could be hitting the bumpstops would be because they are precariously close together.

904_runner

x2. we need a good pic of your ifs setup.

mlrtime99

I think Matt has hit the nail right on the head. The original owner said he never swapped the rear springs and I've always wondered why I didn't have the 4runner ass sag. I'm thinking he just lowered the front end to level it back out. The undersized highway tires probably help keep this from looking obvious. I know I don't have anywhere NEAR the height that 904_runner does in that picture and the shocks are less than 100 miles old. I did think the bumpstops looked oddly close but without having another 4 runner to look at..... I'll grab some bumpstop to A arm and center axle to wheel well measurements when I get home and some more snapshots, thanks guys. I guess overland would have been a better description. But it is not going to be my daily driver, it's sole purpose is to use the 4x4 and to haul the dog. I just meant I wouldn't be attacking rock faces and crawling over 15" boulders everyday.

abecedarian

at stock t-bar height, the a-arms should be angling slightly down from the frame to the ground. if the a-arms are level or pointing upwards, the bars have been under-cranked.
this is a lifted runner, but the springs were not touched during the lift so the arm angles should be close to stock:

904_runner

thats what mine looked like

BLKNBLU

iTrader: (1)

Here is mine FWIW and again it is modified so...

This is when I first finished the BJ spacer install and had relaxed the t bars as far as I safely could. Still have stock bumps.

This gives you an idea of control arm angle with t bars fully relaxed.

Here are the low profile bumps.

Here is from behind for better lighting.

Here is how he sits today with BJ spacers and t bars relaxed as far as possible while still getting the adjusting and lock nuts safely on. I think I dropped 3/4 to 1 inch fender to rim from pre mod measurements IIRC.

Jay351

I agree with Matt, Your truck looks pretty darn low. And the lack of 4 runner sag means sombody did something

tc

blknblu - where did you get the low profile bumps? Did you just unbolt the factory ones and drop the low pros in?

BLKNBLU

iTrader: (1)

Yes, just unbolt the factory bumps and replace. Simple as that.

I got mine from Superlift's e bay site where they clearance discontinued stuff or stuff that was slightly used for testing or have slight blems. It's hit or miss there.

They have similar at Energy or Prothane. You would probably have to special order them in though.
http://www.energysuspension.com/pages/bsp2.html
http://www.prothane.com/universal.php

bullcrew

crown king!!! Bloody basin!!!! BTW best fudge in the world is at crown king!
Take the road from lake pleasant to crown king next, its slow but fun.

BLKNBLU

iTrader: (1)

Yes it is.





Sorry. Getting kinda OT here.

mlrtime99

Hahah no probs, I used the Forest service directions to get there, didn't know there was a way from Lake Pleasant (would have been nice since I'm in Surprise). ANYWAYS center axle to fender is 19.5" and where I used to see daylight between the bumpstop and lower A arm there is none. I wouldn't say it's riding on it now but there's definitely constant contact. I'm hearing the OME torsion bars are a better ride than the Downey's?