Need some good advice on a 22-re problem
06-26-2010, 04:33 PM
#1
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Need some good advice on a 22-re problem
I finally finished with a timing chain cover/head gasket replacement. The truck has been driving great and i have put about 100 miles on it after the replacement. After a 40 mile drive todday it began to "cut out" under load at high RPMs. I would have to let off the accelerator to reduce the RPMs before the motor would run properly again. But each time I revved the motor it would cut again and nearly die. Any thoughts?
Parts replaced: Timing cover, timing chain, head gasket, radiator hoses, thermostat, fuel pump, PCV valve, air filter.
Parts replaced: Timing cover, timing chain, head gasket, radiator hoses, thermostat, fuel pump, PCV valve, air filter.
06-26-2010, 05:08 PM
#2
What year is it, 'Ehertz'?
Is it just going along fine and then 'BLAMMO', drops straight off the map? Any smoke when this happens?<(White, Gray or Black, any one)
Not sure if it can even do this, but most of them do have a fuel cut system. It's just that, that's usually related to the brakes being depressed when over 1000rpm. Not sure if they can go bad and cause this though. Hmmm, I'd be searching the threads, ...should be able to find someone with the issue you're having.
Can the TPS cause this if it's off the grid under a load, guys?
Best wishes, Ehertz, ...Many good guys on here that I'm sure will have some ideas if you can't find anything in the threads.
Mark
Is it just going along fine and then 'BLAMMO', drops straight off the map? Any smoke when this happens?<(White, Gray or Black, any one)
Not sure if it can even do this, but most of them do have a fuel cut system. It's just that, that's usually related to the brakes being depressed when over 1000rpm. Not sure if they can go bad and cause this though. Hmmm, I'd be searching the threads, ...should be able to find someone with the issue you're having.
Can the TPS cause this if it's off the grid under a load, guys?
Best wishes, Ehertz, ...Many good guys on here that I'm sure will have some ideas if you can't find anything in the threads.
Mark
06-26-2010, 05:17 PM
#3
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Thanks for the response. It is a 1986. i dont see any smoke associated with the drop off in power. I will search through post and see what I can find, but sometimes finding a specific issue like this can be like finding a needle in a haystack. I am not even sure what to call this problem or what keywords to search for.
06-26-2010, 05:26 PM
#4
Well, just remember, with the "E" in 22re, it comes with many more things that can 'quirk' out on ya. Don't get discouraged, you'll figure it out. Are you throwing any codes? I'll just assume you don't have any engine lights coming up. From what I know, if the light works, and you have no light coming up,....no codes are being shown.
I didn't think of this earlier, ....A friend of mine had this problem and it was a totally different car, but same type EFI OBDI system. His engine light was burned out, so he didn't know it was wanting to throw a code, lol. He fixed that and found a 32, which on his car was Knock Sensor. You've just replaced the timing chain and head gasket, so I'm assuming you've had to tear into it pretty well. Have you gone through every connection and made sure nothing was hooked up improperly or left off? The reason I said knock sensor is because, from what I know(which isn't MUCH, LOL), if the sensor is bad or reading wrong, it will retard the timing like crazy, thinking it's sensing a bad knock, which would DEFINITELY cause it to feel like it's dying. Then, when you slow down the RPM, it would re-advance itself, I believe. (Guys?)
First thing is to tell everyone if you have a working engine light and if you're throwing codes, if so.
I didn't think of this earlier, ....A friend of mine had this problem and it was a totally different car, but same type EFI OBDI system. His engine light was burned out, so he didn't know it was wanting to throw a code, lol. He fixed that and found a 32, which on his car was Knock Sensor. You've just replaced the timing chain and head gasket, so I'm assuming you've had to tear into it pretty well. Have you gone through every connection and made sure nothing was hooked up improperly or left off? The reason I said knock sensor is because, from what I know(which isn't MUCH, LOL), if the sensor is bad or reading wrong, it will retard the timing like crazy, thinking it's sensing a bad knock, which would DEFINITELY cause it to feel like it's dying. Then, when you slow down the RPM, it would re-advance itself, I believe. (Guys?)
First thing is to tell everyone if you have a working engine light and if you're throwing codes, if so.
06-26-2010, 06:08 PM
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The check engine light has been on since I rebuilt the motor, but I accedentally broke the water thermo sensor on the front of the motor during the overhaul so I just figured that was what the light was on for. I will get it checked 1st thing tomorrow. Is there a link where I can get service codes from?
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06-26-2010, 06:22 PM
#8
Well, I'm sure there is a link, but I'm not one that has it, lol. I'll ask around. You don't have a haynes or something, eh? How did you know all the specs for the timing chain? Sorry, let me rephrase that, lol..... If you have a Hayes, or alternate, they ALWAYS have the codes in there. Usually in the "Emissions Section". Toward the back of that section, it has around 3 pages of codes. You need to clear the codes that are there, after writing them down, BECAUSEEEEE, lol, you've probably disconnected MANY things along the way during repairing, so they'll all be in there, unless you've already pulled the ground for any length of time. If you've got that light, and YOU HAVE cleared them by pulling the ground or EFI fuse since your tearing down of the motor, then the codes you have will be new. Just read how to check them, carefully(if you have a Haynes or Chiltons), and then you'll at least have an idea. You might have to drive around and get it to do that again if you're going to clear them again, just to get the ECU to throw it for you(if it's something that even provides a code....sometimes, like fuel filter, etc., you wont' have a code, ya know?)
06-26-2010, 06:26 PM
#9
WAIT, ...what did you break? Did you break the sensor to the right of/just next to the Cold Start injector Time switch(Brown), the Coolant Temperature Sensor(Green)? That is VERY important as to how the other sensors, etc., react to coolant temperature/ECU, etc.... If it's not connected, you WILL have problems, for sure.
If you're talking about the one on top of the thermostat housing, then that's not as much of an issue. That just reads the coolant temp for your gauge/dummy light.
If you're talking about the one on top of the thermostat housing, then that's not as much of an issue. That just reads the coolant temp for your gauge/dummy light.
06-26-2010, 06:33 PM
#11
http://www.troublecodes.net/Toyota/
RETRIEVING CODES for vehicles before 96
NOTE: Not all trouble codes will activate MIL (CHECK ENGINE light)
* Before proceeding, make sure the:
o CHECK ENGINE light circuit is functional. It should be ON when the ignition switch is ON with the engine stopped.
o Battery voltage is above 11 volts.
o Throttle valve is fully closed (Throttle Position Sensor IDL points closed).
o Accessory switches (A/C, etc.) are OFF.
o Engine is at normal operating temperature (if possible).
* Turn ignition switch to ON position.
o Do not start the engine.
o Place a jumper wire across TEl and El terminals in engine check connector.
* Count number of flashes from CHECK ENGINE light.
o If system is operating normally (with no detected faults), the CHECK ENGINE light will blink continuously
and evenly about 2 times a second.
* Otherwise, the light will blink a number of times equal to the trouble code as follows:
o The light blinks only (.5 second ON, .5 second OFF) when indicating a number.
o The light will be OFF for 1.5 seconds between the first digit and the second digit of the code.
o If more than one code is stored, the light will be OFF for 2.5 seconds before the next code is displayed.
o Once all code(s) have been displayed, the light will be OFF for 4.5 seconds and then the whole sequence will repeat.
* The diagnostic code series will continue to repeat as long as the check connecter terminals TEl and El are connected.
* When finished, remove the jumper wire.
* After repairing the malfunction, clear the codes from the ECUs memory.
Clearing Trouble Codes
All trouble codes must be purged from the ECUs memory after repairing the faults. Otherwise, code(s) would remain in the ECUs memory indefinitely and would appear along with a new code in the event of a future problem.
* Remove the EFI fuse (15A) for 30 seconds with the ignition switch OFF to clear any codes. It may take longer than 30 seconds, depending on ambient temperature (the lower the temperature, the longer the fuse must be left out).
* Trouble codes can also be cleared by disconnecting the vehicle battery. However, other memory functions (clock, radio, etc.), will need to be reset.
* After the codes are cleared, road test the vehicle (as applicable for the fault) and recheck if any codes reset. If so, it indicates that the trouble area has not been repaired correctly.
Trouble Codes
OBD1 Codes
1 Normal Condition.
2 Air Flow Meter signal.
3 Ignition signal.
4 Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor signal.
5 Oxygen Sensor.
6 RPM signal (Crank Angle Pulse).
7 Throttle Position Sensor signal.
8 Intake Air Temperature Sensor signal.
9 Vehicle Speed Sensor signal.
10 Starter signal.
11 Switch signal.
11 ECU/ECM.
12 Knock Control Sensor signal.
12 RPM signal.
13 Knock Control CPU (ECM).
13 RPM signal.
14 Turbocharger Pressure.
14 Ignition signal.
21 Oxygen Sensor.
22 Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor signal.
23 Intake Air Temperature Sensor signal.
24 Intake Air Temperature Sensor signal.
25 Air-Fuel Ratio Lean.
26 Air-Fuel Ratio Rich.
27 Sub Oxygen Sensor signal.
28 No. 2 Oxygen Sensor signal.
31 Air Flow Meter signal (Vacuum Sensor signal).
32 Air Flow Meter signal.
34 Turbocharger Pressure signal.
35 Turbocharger Pressure Sensor signal.
35 HAC Sensor signal.
41 Throttle Position Sensor signal.
42 Vehicle Speed Sensor signal.
43 Starter signal.
51 Switch signal.
52 Knock Sensor signal.
53 Knock Sensor signal.
54 Inter-cooler ECM signal.
71 EGR System.
72 Fuel Cut Solenoid signal.
78 Fuel Pump Control signal.
81 TCM Communication.
83
TCM Communication.
84 TCM Communication.
85 TCM Communication.
RETRIEVING CODES for vehicles before 96
NOTE: Not all trouble codes will activate MIL (CHECK ENGINE light)
* Before proceeding, make sure the:
o CHECK ENGINE light circuit is functional. It should be ON when the ignition switch is ON with the engine stopped.
o Battery voltage is above 11 volts.
o Throttle valve is fully closed (Throttle Position Sensor IDL points closed).
o Accessory switches (A/C, etc.) are OFF.
o Engine is at normal operating temperature (if possible).
* Turn ignition switch to ON position.
o Do not start the engine.
o Place a jumper wire across TEl and El terminals in engine check connector.
* Count number of flashes from CHECK ENGINE light.
o If system is operating normally (with no detected faults), the CHECK ENGINE light will blink continuously
and evenly about 2 times a second.
* Otherwise, the light will blink a number of times equal to the trouble code as follows:
o The light blinks only (.5 second ON, .5 second OFF) when indicating a number.
o The light will be OFF for 1.5 seconds between the first digit and the second digit of the code.
o If more than one code is stored, the light will be OFF for 2.5 seconds before the next code is displayed.
o Once all code(s) have been displayed, the light will be OFF for 4.5 seconds and then the whole sequence will repeat.
* The diagnostic code series will continue to repeat as long as the check connecter terminals TEl and El are connected.
* When finished, remove the jumper wire.
* After repairing the malfunction, clear the codes from the ECUs memory.
Clearing Trouble Codes
All trouble codes must be purged from the ECUs memory after repairing the faults. Otherwise, code(s) would remain in the ECUs memory indefinitely and would appear along with a new code in the event of a future problem.
* Remove the EFI fuse (15A) for 30 seconds with the ignition switch OFF to clear any codes. It may take longer than 30 seconds, depending on ambient temperature (the lower the temperature, the longer the fuse must be left out).
* Trouble codes can also be cleared by disconnecting the vehicle battery. However, other memory functions (clock, radio, etc.), will need to be reset.
* After the codes are cleared, road test the vehicle (as applicable for the fault) and recheck if any codes reset. If so, it indicates that the trouble area has not been repaired correctly.
Trouble Codes
OBD1 Codes
1 Normal Condition.
2 Air Flow Meter signal.
3 Ignition signal.
4 Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor signal.
5 Oxygen Sensor.
6 RPM signal (Crank Angle Pulse).
7 Throttle Position Sensor signal.
8 Intake Air Temperature Sensor signal.
9 Vehicle Speed Sensor signal.
10 Starter signal.
11 Switch signal.
11 ECU/ECM.
12 Knock Control Sensor signal.
12 RPM signal.
13 Knock Control CPU (ECM).
13 RPM signal.
14 Turbocharger Pressure.
14 Ignition signal.
21 Oxygen Sensor.
22 Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor signal.
23 Intake Air Temperature Sensor signal.
24 Intake Air Temperature Sensor signal.
25 Air-Fuel Ratio Lean.
26 Air-Fuel Ratio Rich.
27 Sub Oxygen Sensor signal.
28 No. 2 Oxygen Sensor signal.
31 Air Flow Meter signal (Vacuum Sensor signal).
32 Air Flow Meter signal.
34 Turbocharger Pressure signal.
35 Turbocharger Pressure Sensor signal.
35 HAC Sensor signal.
41 Throttle Position Sensor signal.
42 Vehicle Speed Sensor signal.
43 Starter signal.
51 Switch signal.
52 Knock Sensor signal.
53 Knock Sensor signal.
54 Inter-cooler ECM signal.
71 EGR System.
72 Fuel Cut Solenoid signal.
78 Fuel Pump Control signal.
81 TCM Communication.
83
TCM Communication.
84 TCM Communication.
85 TCM Communication.
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 06-26-2010 at 06:36 PM.
06-26-2010, 06:37 PM
#13
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I have a Chilton's manual. I also found the codes online in the mean time. I was thinking I was going to need a reader from Auto Zone but apparently I will have to look for a series of blinks to determine the problem. thanks for the pointers. I bought the truck with a blwon h-gasket and I dont know if the light was on prior to me owning it. Yes I broke the piece you described. It sits right next to (to the right) of the cold start sensor. I am having trouble finding a replacement and will ikely have to go to the dealer.
Last edited by ehertz; 06-26-2010 at 06:39 PM.
06-26-2010, 06:40 PM
#15
DENSO, Hertz....OEM IS the best way to go with Toyotas, on most things, but ESPECIALLY on Sensors like the O2, CSI Time Switch, Coolant Temp Sensor.....you get the point.
You really need to replace that before trying to properly diagnose whatever is going wrong. That sensor can WREAK HAVOC! Trust me, I know from experience! lol.
You really need to replace that before trying to properly diagnose whatever is going wrong. That sensor can WREAK HAVOC! Trust me, I know from experience! lol.
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 06-26-2010 at 06:42 PM.
06-26-2010, 07:14 PM
#18
I can't say "Stop Driving", Hertz.... I'm just saying it's hard to diagnose many other things when the sensor that tells the ECU how warm the coolant is, thus, "dump or lean out the fuel", etc., when it's broken off?...I'd replace it soon, at least. If it's driving, it's driving, ...it's not gonna explode or anything due to that.
FOR SURE, if you've just put a new fuel filter(Edit, ....sorry, pump, lol) in with TONS OF FRESH PRESSURE....yet have an old dirty arse filter in there, ...yeah, that's definitely a likely suspect to some of your problem! lol.
FOR SURE, if you've just put a new fuel filter(Edit, ....sorry, pump, lol) in with TONS OF FRESH PRESSURE....yet have an old dirty arse filter in there, ...yeah, that's definitely a likely suspect to some of your problem! lol.
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 06-26-2010 at 08:09 PM.
06-27-2010, 02:26 PM
#19
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Today I took the truck for a drive an noticed that the problem gets worse the longer the engine runs. It finally got so bad that it would hardly go. Any time I would push on the gas pedal it would want to die. It is almost like a rev limiter...Pulling over and turning off the engine even for 5 minutes would help and i could drive it again for about 5minutes before it would go back to a near death crawl. I got home and replaced the fuel filter. This did not cure the problem. I then went to check the computer read out but I cannot find the check or diagnostic connector (the T-E1 jumper). I have attached 2 photos one shows several arrows...which arrow is the proper connector? The second photo shows where the diagnostic connector should be, but since this is a 86 I am guessing it is a check connector on the drive side (in photo #1)???
