Ben Fulcher

Hello,
I have a 1988 Toyota pick up I got recently as a hunting truck. It has the 22re and manual transmission if that is relevant. I have not had any issues starting it. It sat for about 2 weeks, and now it will turn over and not crank. I pulled the spark plug last night and checked the spark, which it had even though it seemed a little weak. I do not want to throw parts at this thing so what should I check and in what order?


Thank you

wallytoo

iTrader: (1)

clarity in describing the problem is key.

when you state "it will turn over and not crank", that is ambiguous, because when an engine cranks, it is by definition "turning over". if it doesn't crank, how are you turning it over? are you turning it using a socket and bar?


wally

RAD4Runner

Really? Nothing was done and now it won't start?

Absolutely good that O.P. described year-model-engine-transmission because those matter a lot when troubleshooting
However, need to clarify terminology.

Crank is starter turning the engine, hence "cold-CRANKING" amps spec on battery.
Combustion is when you have spark igniting the fuel and air mixture and you hear "VROOM"
I think the O.P. means it cranks but there is no combustion (VROOM).

Ben,
In order to have combustion, you need to have fuel, air and spark.
Check all ignition wires to spark plugs for spark. No need to pull the plug. Just unplug the wire and hold it close to body metal (AWAY FROM FUEL LINES - ) while someone attempts to start.
Check if you have fuel or if fuel pump is working. Search the forum how to check if fuel pump is working.
Would also help if in the future, you could have a way of monitoring fuel pressure like this

Ben Fulcher

I pulled the cold start injector last night, and got nothing, now I am not sure when the injector is supposed to activate but it was a high of 75 here yesterday but probably mid 60s when I pulled it out of the intake manifold.

@wallytoo not trying to be to much of a smart ass but I have never turned a motor over with a socket and ratchet with the expectation of it cranking. Hell even if I could turn it fast enough that way I would be concerned I would lose a finger.


@RAD4Runner correct turn the key, motor turns over doesn't hit a lick. Since I have had the truck it has always fired right up. Before I posted on here I pulled the #1 plug to see if it was getting a spark and it was.

Just to let you helpful guys out when diagnosing this stuff I am fine with the mechanical parts but if we get into electronics of the truck I may need a little spoon feeding.

akwheeler

try using some starting fluid, just a little, if it starts and dies (crank, fire, die) then you know you have a fuel supply problem. if you still get nothing but the engine cranking consider this, you need fuel air and spark like RAD4Runner said, but you need compression and the spark at the right time as well. also a weak spark won't work if you don't have good compression and a good mixture. you should check compression and timing if the starting fluid doesn't lead to fuel issues. try banging on the bottom of the fuel tank while someone tries to start it, sometimes this will get a bad fuel pump to run just enough to start and run for a while. this works very well on dodge caravans, I haven't had the chance to try it on a Yota yet.

wallytoo

iTrader: (1)

a better method to test the fuel pump is to install a jumper (paperclip) between the b+ and Fp terminals at the engine compartment diagnostic module. with those connected, the fuel pump should run as soon as the key is set to "on", and should be audible. no need to turn the key to "start". if the pump runs, it runs. if no sound, pump may be stuck, at which time banging the tank, or the top access cover (under the rear seat), might get the pump to start working.

wally

wallytoo

iTrader: (1)

right. i'm not either. that's why i asked for clarity. cranking is generally understood to be "turning the motor over via the starter". when you state "it turns over but doesn't crank", it is unclear what you mean. do you in fact mean that the engine will turn via the starter, but it will not run? or something else? i interpret "turns over but doesn't crank" to mean that the starter does not engage or function, but the engine has been tested to be sure it freely rotates (for instance, via a socket and breaker bar/extension).

wally

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

A weak spark will not always ignite the fuel. Get a Haynes Manual and a Multimeter and check the Primary and Secondaries on the Coil. Harbor Freight or any part store has meters for cheap and are really useful for things like this.

If I my coil checked out good, I would open the Throttle Body and put a little starting fluid in the Intake System and with the air pipe hooked back up, see if it would Run for a few seconds until the starting fluid burned up. If it does run for a few seconds, I would jumper the Fuel Pump ( last picture in this post) >>>> https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...l#post51760299

You want to see if it is on the Fuel Side or Fire Side.

Ben Fulcher

Terrys87 I already jumped the diagnostic ports and the fuel pump wasn't humming so I pulled my tank and fuel pump. I will install it this weekend or early next week. To top this off it appears I have a draw on my battery, because me brand new batter is also dead now. What should I do to start trying to find what is drawing current when the key is off?

coryc85

Ben - on the current draw issue, how long did it take to kill the battery? Was it over a 2 week period? With lots of cranking and the truck not running to charge back up, I don't know that you necessarily have a mysterious current draw. One thing that has sometimes happened in my 4Runner is the key can be pulled from the ignition without the switch being in the OFF position, so if someone other than me drives the truck, I find this is often the case and radio can be left on. As for tracking down any stray current draws, if you have a clamp on meter, you could clamp it around one of the battery cables and see what it reads with truck off. Should be practically 0, if not perhaps pull some fuses one at a time to see if the reading drops.

Also if you have any alarm, auxiliary lighting, or strange wires under the hood or dash, I would suspect those first and maybe disconnect them to see if that helps. Is the stereo factory, if not is it wired into factory harness or has someone done their own wiring?

Ben Fulcher

The cranking didn't cause the battery to die this happened concurrently with my fuel pump going bad. With the meter do I need to set it to amps to test the draw? Im no electrician, but it should read 12 volts if I hook it to the battery and any ground set on volts and continuity and resistance would also always have some sort of reading yes?

akwheeler

if you are looking for a draw you need to be reading amps. if you don't have access to a clamp on amp meter you need to have your multi meter set on amps and in series with one of the battery cables. it is easy to mess this up though. most meters have internal fuses and if you turn anything on while it is hooked up you can burn them out, I managed to do this when looking for a very small draw with my meter connected for the lowest range and I opened a door. the dome light current was too high for the fuse in the meter and I didn't notice. it just seemed like my draw went away because the meter read zero. what I like to do is hook up a test light (a tail light bulb works great, it's large and easy to see) between the negative battery cable and the negative battery terminal. if it glows brightly there is a large draw, dimly means a small draw. removing fuses one at a time will lead you to the draw or multiple draws by watching for the light to dim when you pull the fuse. just a note here, most any vehicle with computerized engine controls will show a draw when the battery (or test gear) is first connected. when the computer goes into sleep mode the draw will reduce noticeably but there will always be a very small draw. if you hook up to the battery and see a draw, wait 5 minutes watching your meter or test light and see if it suddenly drops by itself.
good luck!

Ben Fulcher

So I want to clarify I want to take my test light and put my alligator clamp on the negative terminal and see if the light lights up if I poke through the insulation of the wire. Test light looks similar to the linked one. http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/i...2qUxoCpj_w_wcB

RAD4Runner

Hi Ben,
Sorry, but I think a test light is only good for troubleshooting presence (You have 12Volts) or absence (You have NO voltage) of power, not minute/parasitic draw, so we are not sure how accurate a test light would be for your purpose.

Next only to our senses, the digital multimeter (around $10 at HF) is the best electrical diagnostic tool for classic trucks.

Like AK Wheeler says ^^^, it is not always safe to use the Amperes mode of the multi-meter to troubleshoot a short or excessive current draw. To troubleshoot using Resistance reading, pls see my post here.

Ben Fulcher

So I finally got a fuel pump and when I turn the key it still turns over and nothing. I put a shot of gas in the intake manfold turned the key and the truck momentarily jumped to life and then died. So I am still having some sort of fuel issue what should I do next to get my truck running?

scope103

Jumper FP to B+ on the diagnostic connector. With key-on, that forces the pump to run. (Without the starter cranking, you should be able to hear it.) If that clears up your problem, you have a failure in the VAF COR circuit. Just use your multimeter to find it. If that doesn't do it, verify you have 12v on B+ (with key-on). If you do, you're probably not connected to the fuel pump.

(Don't drive around with the jumper in; it's a safety issue.)

Charchee

I understood you buddy. They ain't all from the south where we roll'er over till she cranks.

If you are positive that your fuel pump isn't running with FP and B+ jumped with the key on, then you have to attack the fuel pump circuit. Here's something you might look for. You said the battery is draining down which might indicate a short of some kind. I've seen where the wires to the fuel pump have rubbed against something and were shorting against the frame. Check all of this wiring. You might even tap into the wires in several places and see if you are getting power anywhere in the circuit. Let me back up for a minute and reference the post above. You also need to find out if you have voltage at the B+ terminal. You won't get any power to the circuit beyond that point if you don't. Voltage on B+ will isolate your issue to the fuel pump circuit itself and you can move forward from there.

Something else you might try that will only take a minute would be to open up your fuse box and check all of your fuses with your test light. I wold start by checking the B+ for voltage though.

Ben Fulcher

Ok everyone I did some homework and I do not have 12 volts at b+, but I did have 12 volts across my efi fuse. So what's next is it my relay in my fuse block that has gone bad?

on my battery draw I had 163 milliamperes draw I could hear a relay clicking sounded like it was in the cab somewhere but didn't go through all the circuits because I want the truck running first.

Charchee

It could be the circuit opening relay behind the glove box. Can someone confirm that B+ is fed through the circuit opening relay? I don't remember and I hate to send you in there after it without knowing. It's kind of a pain to get to.

Ben Fulcher

edit: deleted duplicate reply below.