McMagical Eng.

Hello YotaTech!

I have been scouring this site for years, gleaning amazing helpful tips and information. I finally hit a dead end and I have started to loop on my search results. I could really use suggestions on my next move, I have tried everything short of setting fire to the thing... Any help is greatly appreciated.

My little truck, lovingly known as Jankey Mc.Truckerson, is a wonderful 89' pickup. White, mismatched body panels, 4x4, 22RE from a 91'. I purchased it for next to nothing in Arizona when I was in college. I have rebuilt it, painted it, welded rock rails to it, driven it across the US twice, wheeled it, loved it... and then I brought it up to Seattle where things started to go wrong.

I started having the standard intermittent starter problem (cured by whacking the starter with a rubber mallet and doing a small dance to the gods of ignition) and realized that I was probably looking at a new starter soon. I finally reached the point where it would not start in my driveway so I went to the lovely (ignorant and oh so special) folks at my local car parts place and got a new one. I put it in and... CLICK.

The big old click of a solenoid flying out to greet the flywheel... but no joy. So I started looking into other problems. Turns out the sea air here in rainyville had taken quite a toll on my poor desert truck. I went all out to save it. I replaced the stator and rotor, spark plugs, had a guy come out to check my compression, spark, fuel pressure, etc... It started and ran! But only with the fuel pump jumpered. I figured it was probably just a bad relay so I sent the mobile mechanic on his way thinking I was nearing the end of my ordeal. WRONG.

I slowly went through the process of replacing parts of the ignition system diagram. I put in a new mass vane air sensor unit, a new check open relay, and a new battery (my old one didn't pass the load test.)

CLICK.

The solenoid still engaged but didn't turn the motor over. Aha! I thought,the ground is good, but there might not be enough voltage on the positive wire perhaps? So I tried putting a jumper from the positive on the battery to the starter while in neutral.

CLICK.

AH! Ok, so the solenoid is engaging with full voltage (at least I would imagine coming directly from the battery with a brand new ground cable bolted on and brand new battery) So the friendly (and oh so special) folks at the parts store must have sold me a lemon!

Mind you, I have no garage, but I am getting really good and pulling the starter on and off in the dark with a headlamp. I pulled it off this evening and brought it back to the parts store with my warranty. Got a new one, installed it and...

CLICK.

It engages, but wont turn. I did the same jumper from battery to starter to make sure it wasn't a voltage issue, and still no turning!

So now I do not know what to do. I have replaced enough parts that I can not sell it as a non-running unit. If it starts up, I can sell it practically as a new car. With spare parts that probably still work.

What is next? I put it into 5th with the starter removed and rocked her back and forth a bit to see if the flywheel would turn a notch or two, it did move a little so I do not think anything has completely seized. I can imagine that replacing every wire would fix a lot of issues, but I cant figure out what ones to change anymore. Is there any other reasons that my starter wouldn't turn the engine over, even jumped straight from the battery?

I want my truck to run again... My girlfriend wants me to sell it... and my landlord doesn't want a dead truck sitting on the lot...

Thanks in advance.
McMagical Eng.

jennygirl

Hi there, McMagical Eng.

Have you seen this?

Click-Only Cranking Issue Caused By Toyota Electrical Engineering Blunder Fixed

According to that post, your truck is just outside of the affected year, but perhaps there is some overlap? Anyway it's worth a look if you haven't seen already.

Hope you get it fixed, that sounds like a whole load of not fun!

BigBluePile

iTrader: (3)

Just because you have all the voltage in the world really doesn't mean much. It's the amps. You could still have a ground issue.

Not sure if you came across this yet: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Starter.shtml

McMagical Eng.

Thanks JennyGirl! I had seen that, but figured it was the older system. I will start digging into it to see if maybe I can make similar fixes.

BigBluePile,
I love that site, it helped me fix so many issus, but I didn't see this page! Thank you. I know amperage is a huge factor... but I have a huge ground cable bolted directly from a new battery to the starter and tapped the positive off with a jumper cable. That should be nearly pure battery to pure starter... I dont know if I could make a stronger jolt.
I will read that page and let you know if I come across a solution.

Cheers and thanks again!

jennygirl

No problem

And welcome to post-mode!

I'm sure you're gonna find this. All-in-all it's a pretty simple system, really.

Let us know what you find!

BigBluePile

iTrader: (3)

Who knows, maybe the starter casing isn't making a clean metal to metal contact. You need good power AND good ground. To check that, run your jumper cables again and hook negative on the starter casing and the positive on the main power. Then take the wee little signal wire jumper and touch positive on the battery (please to ensure truck is in neutral...).

Right now it SOUNDS like the engine will turnover, correct?

McMagical Eng.

I will do just that! I found a thread here: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...-guide-194413/ and realized that my grounds are not up to standards in the least bit. I had just been using the ground from the battery, but not checking the outer casing ground connection. I suppose it makes a difference after the solenoid moves and once the copper ring engages to make the thing spin... It would have to have a secondary ground from the body that I am most likely not getting. I should probably take it back off (6th times a charm) and clean the metal contact and replace the grounds properly.

When it does turn, it runs like new. I just am trying to get it to do that again.
I shall try, try again.

Thanks!

BigBluePile

iTrader: (3)

Easy peezy

McMagical Eng.

Well... it seemed easy peasy. I went out and hooked up the jumper cables. Negative battery to the motor bolt on the starter. Positive to the little excitor wire deal. CLICK.
It is odd... this new starter makes a louder click on the return stroke than the engagement stroke.
I will do grounds next... but that should have worked. battery reads 12.54V.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Do you ever test these starters before installing them??

It is possible your just getting a bunch of junk rebuilds.

As long as you have good jumper cables good connections

The negative to the starter mounting bolt the positive to the stud on the starter . then jump to the solenoid male spade connector .

It should crank not start unless the ignition is turned on.

BigBluePile

iTrader: (3)

Indeed.

YoshiMan

That's what I was gonna ask, which store at the starters coming from?

I've had numerous rebuilt Alternators and Starters be dead out of the box from the local stores over the years. I don't know where they get them rebuilt, but They are GARBAGE!!

Now Power steering pumps on the other hand... they seem to do pretty well with those!

SunshineMcB

Nice! I've only named 2 of my Toyotas: the red Tacoma was affectionately known as "Li'l Devil" and a current Hilux pickup is known as "I Want It Gone".

I've been dealing with the same thing with "I Want It Gone" for the past 4 years. It's intermittent. Will follow this thread with bated breath.

SunshineMcB

I've seen it. Had a friend go through FOUR consecutive starters on his car before one worked.

Schnayke

iTrader: (1)

In my old 83' I went through 15, yes you read that right 15 strait crap starters from various parts stores. Finally I just rebuilt the one I had my self with my own two hand and it worked great for the 9 years I had the truck after that.

Odin

You might check and see if there's a shop that just deals with rebuilding starters, alternators, electrical parts in your town. That type of shop is where I get my stuff because they stand by their products and are alot more knowledgeable than the chain auto stores. If something is wrong they test it with dedicated equipment and a skillful hand.

jennygirl

Nice! I am totally into it- take it apart before giving up! There is so much that can be fixed with our own two hands. Next time a starter goes out for me I will give that a try, too

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

I will send you a starter in your care package may as well send a alternator as well

jennygirl

You are too much! Lol

I can't wait to mess around with all of this stuff. Hopefully I can fix it!

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

I am sure you will learn quite a bit.

You need challenges to keep from getting bored with this stuff.