atcfixer

iTrader: (1)

Splitting off from another thread to keep it on topic. I ran a 1986 Toyota Pickup with the xtra cab and long box for about 6 months and with very oversized tires was able to achieve 25-30mpg. I suspect the tires were around 31in, but I could be overshooting it a little, they were jeep tires, and I swapped them just because it was what I had around that would fit and had tread at the time. Was wondering if anyone else has seen similar numbers with driving slow (I was going 45-50mph back roads 80% of the time).

The 22R seems to run strong, I do know the float level is a little high and I adjusted the idle up enough so it wouldn't die when braking. I'd have to check again, but I'm pretty sure the air/fuel mix screw still has the cap over it. I'm at around 650ft elevation and have basically no hills to deal with. The truck was so high geared I had to ride the clutch in 1st gear upto 10mph or so when taking off. I did have a hole in the AAP and I made up a block off gasket for it.

Based on cbr600rx7 these trucks normally get 18-20mpg, seems kind of low when my 4x4 v6 Tacoma standard cab gets 18-20 driving "normal" and can hit 22-24 driving it easy and slower. I can understand if the truck was 4x4 and sat up in the sky since wind resistance is the #1 killer on mileage (aka slow down if you want more MPG), and secondary is running the engine in-efficient for take off and braking at the last minute instead of coasting to the corner.

Not trying to get into an argument or anything, just a friendly debate.

I might be crazy, but I'm more or less expecting 22-25mpg out of my 1st gen 4runner 4x4 when I finish putting a very healthy 2.7L in it from a Tacoma. I plan to run 33's on it, even though actual measurement is right around 32in.

Photo is when I first got it, ignore the junk in the background.

millball

I get about 21-22 mpg from my '87 4Runner 22re.

4.10s', 10.50-31s', 5 speed engine has run over 285,000mi.

Mostly 55-60mph.

atcfixer

iTrader: (1)

Oh that reminds me, my truck had really high gearing, something like 3:42 and a W55 stick. The clutch system seems to work so much better in the older trucks vs my tacoma that just wants to grab and go, not really possible to ride a clutch to ease a pull. My dad's T100 is the same way.

Based on a member on ecomodder.com, they swapped output gears in their FWD car to increase the gearing, and with a light foot, they saw a near linear increase in mpg. I don't remember the number off hand, but it was something like +10% gearing + 8% mpg.

285k miles, just broke in . I don't remember the miles on my 86 off hand, pretty sure it was over 200k by quite a bit.

I'd love to pull 30mpg out of my 2.7L 4runner, but I suspect that might be beyond logical with the 4.10 gearing.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

On a two wheel drive fuel injected, I could get 25-30 mpg depending on how I drive. Not sure on a 22r. A four wheel drive fuel injected 21 mpg is about the best I could get. My brother says he gets 23 mpg with his 22r 4 wheel drive.

osv

if the tires weren't factory size, it would have screwed up the odometer reading.

atcfixer

iTrader: (1)

I adjusted the miles driven by the % difference in tire size. Besides if I was getting 25mpg with out adjusting it, I'd be getting even better than that correctly adjusted.

Anyway, thanks for the replies, I suspect the common difference between the higher mpg and lower is primary 4x4 vs 2wd. The 2wd trucks do sit quite low, weight less, and of what I've seen are quite high geared. I suspect the 4x4 1st gen 4runner I'll be running will be in the 22-25mpg range with my driving habits, but it does sit up pretty high. For giggles I threw up a photo of it how I bought it (no engine). The lund visor will probably be removed for better MPG even though it does look nice on it. I'm kind of building it more for a people mover and use it for pulling a trailer while my pickup is down getting much needed work on it.

gsp4life

The mileage you're expecting might be possible. You'll keep the 4.10 gears with near-stock size tires? The 2.7l supposedly gets similar economy to the 22re. For reference, I rebuilt my 22re and took it out on it's first highway trip. 100 miles each way between 50-65mph. Got 21mpg on the way up with a heavy load of tools and just over 24mpg on the return trip unloaded. Didn't do any drafting behind semi's or anything, just fluctuated rpms from 2000-3000 to try and keep the new engine from getting dreaded cylinder-ridge! Pretty sure I'll be able to hit 25mpg when the engine is fully broken in so long as the speed stays under 65mph.

Good luck.

atcfixer

iTrader: (1)

I'm planning on running 32's load range C, so not super heavy, but still can handle a trailer. I got to drive a 95 tacoma with the 2.7L that sat for 3 years, love that bottom end grunt of the inline motors, my 3.4L drives so much different. I'm not sure what the factory sized tire was on the 4runner, but I suspect it's around 28-29in since I doubt it was the package with the 31's. The 32's are also a skinny tire and fits on stock wheel width just perfect and are a good all around tread, even though it is 15/16in deep lol.

I have no clue when I'll get this 4runner going, since the dash wiring requirements and such to just get it running to see what I have. I have another 2nd gen 4runner with the 3.0L with the famous blown head gasket problem and that is all that is wrong with it besides an ugly body but good frame. Planning to drive the 2nd gen as a winter beater to catch up on some work my 96 tacoma needs, and maybe have time to work on the 1st gen 4runner. I'm not too motivated over the winter since it gets pretty cold here and I hate being cold.

21 and 24mpg for a fresh rebuilt motor does sound really good. Are you running 4.10s and is the truck 4x4? I saw a charge comparing the 22re and 2.7L, and the torque curve looked exactly the same, just the 2.7L was quite a bit higher. From memory it was something like +50 ft/lb toque the whole line, and the HP I'm thinking was around +30.

gsp4life

It's a 4x4 with sfa, stock springs, 4.10 gears and 30" tires (that measure 29!) Used to have 31" bfg at's but they got stolen and the thieves switched them with the 30's. Too thrifty to care until steel wires poke out.

Fyi, Stock tire size for 4.10 geared trucks was metric p225/75/r15 or 28.3"x8.9". The 4.10 differential code on your firewall vin plate is G292. Mine plates were swiped during the theft, so no pic

Honestly, I just got lucky on the engine. It should've been a real dog. The machine shop I chose specializes in Chevy v8's cause, well... it's Ohio. I doubt anyone cared a lick while working on this tiny japanese thing. They didn't even want the new pistons for measuring the bore, which scared the crap outta me, but they're the pro's so whatever. Go figure that a great engine is the result...

gsp4life

So, just did the same round trip again and fuel economy went up. Loaded full of furniture and 2 bikes on a rear hitch-rack, got 22 mpg. The unloaded return trip got 26.5mpg! Makes me wonder how much it would improve if I put on some all-seasons. Kind of sacrilegious on a solid axle 4x4 though...

I've never routinely driven so slow on highways before (~60 on a 70mph interstate), so that's the biggest factor aside from the new engine.

atcfixer

iTrader: (1)

Odd looks like my reply didn't go though for the last message. To sum it up, sorry to hear about your loss, but atleast they were kind enough to give you something to roll on instead of blocks. The machine/engine work should be done correctly, even if the worker doesn't like what they work on, my dad used to fix cars for a living, and some are just a nightmare to work on, but he still did the job correctly.

If I get your second post correctly, you made the same trip as before that you got 21 to and 24mpg back on, but went 60mph instead of 70 and got 22 and 26.5mpg? Sounds about right from my experience. I didn't drive the 22r long enough to really know how low of RPM you can get it before it sucks the gas too much due to lugging, but I suspect it is pretty low except on hills and against a stiff wind. I bet if you drove 45mph in the country with minimum stops you could hit 28mpg+ with your current setup empty.

Now the fun thing, you could really benefit from coasting to stops more, and maybe taking off easier too. When I drive my Tacoma, the mpg difference between loaded and empty is very little difference unless I have a wind drag difference. Just flat out weight in the truck I generally get the same mpg, sometimes a little better because I typically drive easier with a load. I've hulled cars home on a car dolly before and went to the place and got ~20mpg, and on the return trip hit 22mpg going ~5mph slower and the easier take offs and longer coasting. Other extreme is hulling my 1st gen 4runner home, went 45mph all the way on back roads, and I still only got around 16mph with that big Lund wind catch on the front.

Here is a little write up from ecomodder for 100 tips for better mpg. Some are basic common sense, but some are pretty good things to note. I have load range E tires, max side wall psi is 80, and I run them that high. Most average car tires are 44psi, and auto manufactures recommend something much lower to give a nicer smooth ride. Unless you have a bad back, or don't mind the extra fuel cost, pushing the pressure up does help a lot. Very noticeable if you run ~26-35psi vs 44psi. There are some pretty interesting "studies" on this subject on the site using a coast down method (say 40mph to stopped) and ~40-50psi is where the benefit of going higher isn't as much.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/EM-hyperm...ecodriving.php

I kind of wonder how well a VW TDI would do in a 2wd toyota pickup for MPG. Similar weight as the car, and the areo isn't as good probably, so I'd guess 30-35mpg for a "normal" driver (45+ if I drove it lol).

gsp4life

The difference in trips was that I varied rpms a lot more often the first time. But I think the engine is about broken in now as far as the cam, bearings and rings are concerned so I can resume "normal" highway driving. Just trying to keep the top speed down for the first few thousand miles cause I know it's bad on a new engine. I still wind each gear up to 3500rpm to keep it varied so that's sucking extra gas. I'll start shifting where I used to ~2500rpm and I bet I'll see more improvement.

I used to run 30psi but raised it to 35 and for me that's enough of a compromise between comfort, traction and economy. On a long highway trip I might try 40psi.

As far as power band goes, the 22re pulls the 4runner 60mph up moderate hwy inclines at 2000rpm. With a full load it increased to about 2200rpm without feeling like it was starting to lug. I do know that reputable builders don't recommend letting a 22re sit below 2000rpm on a new engine, not sure if that relaxes as the odometer ticks on...

gsp4life

Edit: at 60mph in 5th gear the engine is turning 2500rpm. 2000rpm is my ultra-slow 50mph hwy cruise.

atcfixer

iTrader: (1)

Neat details. 4.10 gearing, and I assume W56 trans? My Tacoma with the R150 trans runs fairly close to the same rpm. I think it's overdrive might be a little higher geared than the W56 though. 2500rpm is probably closer to 65 instead of 60, but I'm running 32in tires instead of the factory 31's.

My 86 pickup didn't have a tach in it, but I was probably putting around 1500-1800rpm in 5th gear (W55 + something like 3.42 gearing and larger tires, 30-31in I'm thinking, been a while). Seamed to do well, just the take off was a long clutch ride vs any other toyota stick I've driven, however the W55 trans has a lot higher first gear vs the W56.

About the tires, one thing to check is the side walls, it will say the max psi. Cheap car tires can be 30-36psi, most others are 44psi. LT and load range c-e generally run higher and higher psi. Been a while since I've read it, and don't remember the source off hand, but it went something along the lines of if the tire is 10% under the max psi, it is counted at under inflated and incorrect tread wear will result and such. I think that might be something to that, since my Corolla is running 44psi (max sidewall) and I've made 50k mile cheap tires go 60k or so and still the tread is above the wear bars.

Sounds like your engine is breaking in well since you're pulling good mpg even with the hard take offs. It is really hard to explain in text, but the engine design 99% of all cars/trucks have run most efficently (mpg wise) at ~80% load. That doesn't mean 80% gas peddle though. With a scanner on my corolla, it seemed to be quite happy with 80% load. I haven't really monitored my Tacoma close enough to know when I'm taking off about the same, since it is a bigger engine I naturally run around 60-70% load for take off.

To go the super extreme, there are some people doing what they call pulse and glide, basically get up to speed as fast as possible with out flooring it, then turn the engine off and coast back down 15-20mph less, pop the clutch and do it again, which ironically is more efficient than steady speed at the average speed. Very hard to pull off and get a net gain though. With my corolla mid trip I reset my mpg trip at a stop and tried it for a few miles, and once I got stopped again it was around 65mpg, but such a pain to do and any I wouldn't do it with any traffic around.

gsp4life

IMO people go to some odd extremes for a tiny bit of extra fuel economy, when say riding a bike, walking or carpooling would be more efficient in terms of gasoline usage. I support burning less fossil fuel in general, but wonder how the most extreme eco-drivers justify operating a combustible engine at a certain point.

I'm no expert on tire construction and wear, but I've seen overinflated tires lose tread in the center until bald on an otherwise good tire. Tires are made mostly from crude oil, so you'd think there'd be a diminishing return on high inflation to achieve more mpg, right? Seems to not be the case with your corolla but for example, the tires on my 4runner are LT c-load all-terrains with a max of 50psi @ 1990 lbs per tire. The truck weighs about 3600 lbs, so isn't it best to try and match the pressure to the load it carries rather than the max pressure it can hold?

And yes, I've got a W56.

old87yota

I have heard that you should ALWAYS inflate tires to what ever the manufacture (Toyota) specifies in the manual for normal driving conditions. This PSI rating is probably the best compromise between tread wear, comfort, traction, stability and efficiency. I would think running pressures much higher would compromise the handling because the tires bounce more and could loose contact with the road when driving over large bumps.

With my 22R 2WD automatic, I get about 18 mpg driving around town. I have no idea what I would get on the highway (I don't drive on the highways much).

I am not sure how much less efficient the automatic transmission is compared to a 4 speed or 5 speed.

I am a pretty easy driver.

Now that the truck is 30 years old, I want to see if I get any mpg gains from rebuilding the carburetor, along with fixing a hesitation issue and a cold start issue.

Does this mpg sound about right? I have read that the 2wd trucks can get 25 mpg city but with a 5 speed manual.

atcfixer

iTrader: (1)

Everywhere I see talk of a 22r/re with the automatic they say they are slow. If I remember correctly, they are not lock up torque converter design, so you're always loosing 10-15% of your power though the torque converter. City driving is a hard topic to cover, I get great MPG in most cars/trucks at city speeds, but the unpredictable stops is where my mpg is ate up. To me it sounds 18mpg is a bit low for a 2wd, however axle and trans gearing makes a huge difference with out factoring in driving habits or environment.

You mention a cold start issue, are you flooring the gas peddle once to set the choke before you start it? After it starts does it run ruff? I know the AAP is a common problem, and on my truck I completely blocked it off with a new solid gasket and never missed it. My float or the needle and seat is acting up (stalls at stops, so idle adjusted up to stop that).

In my mind a hesitation with the cold start issue is screaming the AAP leaking fuel in and making it run rich all the time and the fact the MPG seems low to me atleast.

Tires can be a touchy subject for some. Personally I run my tires at max sidewall, some times a little more, some times a little under depending on what it is on exactly. As long as my alignment is good, I never seen tread wear out in the middle before the outside. Only exception is more aggressive tires where the outer "lugs" are left when the middle is worn out, and that is more of a tire design difference than bad tread wear.

The argument about the tires bouncing too much is valid to a point, modern suspention in good shape should have zero problems maintaining traction, however test, or find an independent party to validate since this is just my opinion. A great area to look would be in drag racing since winning generally relates to keeping maximum traction while keeping rolling resistance low.

old87yota

Yes, the truck is slow and I think you are right that the torque converter isn't a lock up type.

I have the factory rear axle and tire size (not sure of the gear ratio but I can look that up)

Yes, I am pressing the accelerator pedal before startup.
The owners manual says "Press the accelerator twice to the floor and release it. This engages the automatic choke and fast idle."

Sometimes the engine will start right up and the fast idle engages right away. Most of the time though, the truck will start up and the RPMs will stay low until I press and hold the accelerator to bring the RPMs up.

Other than that, the engine runs smooth with no misfires or smoke.

I will look into the AAP. I have also heard that is a common problem. I bought a carburetor kit but just haven't had the time to do anything yet. I figured that the truck is 30 years old and could use a complete carburetor rebuild to make sure everything works as it should.

Thanks for the advice!
I won't derail your thread any longer.

atcfixer

iTrader: (1)

Not a problem getting side tracked, it still related to MPG a bit =).

I didn't grow up with carb cars/trucks, but I suspect it probably has some sort of choke adjustment for how it engages. Besides that, general rule of thumb is the carb will run lean when it needs cleaned (or rebuild kit) unless the jets get worn or the needle and seat are leaking and overfilling the float bowl, then it will run rich.

I noticed you sig says your 87 came with a cassette radio, what brand is on it? I'd assume Toyota, but I have a truck with 67k orig miles with another brand (forgot what brand exactly though), but it looks like a factory installed setup since it matches the dash lines well and such. The lady that owned it parked it for 20-25 years in the garage, then couldn't get it running after the critters ate some wiring and such.

old87yota

I forgot to mention that when I took the truck to a shop that specialize in older cars a year ago for an oil leak (I didn't have time to fix myself), they said that the carburetor was running lean and they adjusted the mixture screw. I never looked to see if the factory plug covering the mixture screw was removed before taking it in so I don't know when it was removed.

My truck was passed down to me through the family when I first learned to drive about 7 years ago and have been driving it ever since.
I have no idea what the original radio looked like in my truck because a family member had it removed to install a Pioneer cassette deck back in 1992. The original radio probably was just AM/FM. When I first got the truck, I removed the Pioneer cassette deck for a Pioneer CD deck which was nice entry level deck. After a while the bright red lights were bugging me because they reflected off of the back window and then back to the windshield which was annoying when driving at night. I decided that since the rest of my interior was original and in great shape that I would find a period correct cassette radio and start restoring some of the cosmetics. I wanted the top of the line cassette deck 1. For better sound. and 2. because the radio looked cool. The radio I got was out of a Camry but was found in top of the line 4Runners and some trucks too (1987-1989??). It is a Technics (a high end audio brand of Panasonic) cassette deck made for Toyota cars and trucks. I fixed up the radio and it actually performs better than the CD player I removed. The cassette part even works!

Pioneer CD Player:


Technics Deck:







Ok now we are really off track.

Maybe the extra pound from adding this radio has affected my MPG??