Just_ Rollin'

See more pictures here: http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/bl...deshow/4runner


I've got a 1993 4runner, manual t., 223k on the clock. About a month ago I replaced the valve cover gasket because it was leaking. A week ago I noticed it was consuming oil but noticed no external leak. I am using regular dino oil in this thing.

Today I go to start it, nothing unusual, until I hear a sound that I would describe as someone slurping a soda when its empty, or to be more precise the sound a power steering fluid pump makes when the power steering fluid is low (I know this from changing fluid in another car and certainly is not the problem here). So this was a slightly slurping and slightly metallic/clanging noise. I get out to investigate and I notice that engine oil is gushing from beneath the car, like someone just opened a spigot and dumped it out.

I took off the skid plate and it seems like the leak is from the driver's side, front of the engine, in the region of the oil filter. I'm not totally well versed in 4runner's yet but I think I see an oil pressure sender there too. Lots and lots of oil in that area but it doesn't appear to be coming from the sender; its possibly coming from the oil filter but I question that theory because soooo much came out at once, like a hose had burst off or a chunk of the oil pan exploded , Apollo 13 style .

So please see the attached photos, oh learned elders of Yotatech, and advise me on further courses of action. I would be happy to take more photos or even video if an astute helper needed more visual information.

Other information:

• Difficult to pinpoint leak source because it is believed the leak sprayed into the fan and distributed oil all over, including on the hood.
• Oil concentrated on driver's side, front of engine, near oil filter.
• No recent external oil leak noticed.
• Engine was burning oil internally at unknown rate.
• Dip stick shows no oil in crankcase after the failure.
• Slurping noise noticed prior to manually shutting down engine via key.
• Leak was massive and sudden.
• Zero indication of failure before this point.

Just_ Rollin'

bump5

Appleseed

Is it possible the timing chain guides are worn and let the chain wear through the cover?

rbuchmann

Since it looks like the oil is mainly around the front, I would also take a close look at the timing cover.

4runrjunkie

from the photos it looks like its the 3vze, so no timing chain, and i havent heard of the belt wearing through the cover very often.

OP, sorry I cant be more help best of luck with it

Bigblock

Gotta be the filter. Or the oil pump mounting gasket. Make sure the filter has only one O-ring.

rbuchmann

Ahh yes, I stand corrected, didn't look at the photos close enough, It is a 3.0

Sturmcrow

Have you checked the oil return line that goes from the oil cooler to the block? It is behind the oil filter and I think would spray a lot of oil forward if it blew.

Edit: Actually, maybe both of the lines running to the cooler are coolant lines, so nevermind. You could check the cooler to see if it sprung a leak. You could also check that the pressure transducer right in front of the oil filter is leaking.

jreb10

Probably a long shot, but you should make sure that the previous oil filter did not leave its O ring behind when it was removed. If it did, you have two O rings where there should only be one. It may hold for a while, but....

Just_ Rollin'

I would like to thank all of the participants in this thread who offered great suggestions but I believe Bigblock and jreb10 take this one with the recommendation to look at the oil filter o-ring.

Please see the attached photos. One of the o-rings appears to be that which came with the old filter while another has a taper and is most likely suspect/from an old filter. The oil pump had no spray emanating from it and it did indeed appear that oil had come mysteriously from the filter only.

So, I will tentatively conclude that having 2 o-rings was the problem.

The next order of business refers to liability, which is my natural inclination given my profession. So how exactly does a double o-ring situation occur considering the last oil change was performed by a mechanic while he replaced the valve cover gasket? I could see plain as day that there were two o-ring's sandwiched under the oil filter and once I removed the filter, I was certain. Is this kind of thing common at a mechanic who has a solid reputation or have I uncovered their plot to have everyone bring back in their cars because of a "sudden oil leak" and make them pay .

I hope nothing happened to the engine due to no oil and it was shut down fast enough but the mechanic's error could very well have cost my vehicle its engine. This seems akin to a dentist removing the wrong tooth, putting braces on twice perhaps? Either way, this kind of error is unacceptable.

I'm thinking a stern but friendly letter demanding reimbursement for oil in the least. And at most.......

Discuss.

Sturmcrow

Oil reimbursement and a professional engine cleaning, if you ask me.

Glad to hear you found the problem. Pissed on your behalf that it was something so asinine. I did not even realize that could happen, but am glad I make a habit of wiping the sealing area down on the block every time I change the filter.

You probably know already, but running the engine dry of oil often causes a rod knock to develop. It sounds like documentation is your profession, but make sure you keep some records in case that dreaded noise pops up in the next weeks.

Just_ Rollin'

I'm glad I was able to document this problem so hopefully if someone else finds themself in a situation of panic as I did, and as gushing oil will likely induce, they may find comfort in knowing it was someone's "asinine" goof and not something massive. But really, I suppose the last time I will let someone else change the oil has passed; though this is disconcerting considering he had to given the engine work being done (valve cover gasket).

For other California residents, consult this page if you run out of options: http://www.autorepair.ca.gov/80_BARR...air_Guide.html

I think oil + filter + engine cleaning is an outstanding idea and completely warranted. It is unfortunate, however, that it looks like the Exxon Valdez crashed into my driveway. Cheers to DIY everyone with beer of course.

rbuchmann

A good mechanic should have spotted the old o-ring attached to the block, as he should have wiped the area clean and then using a touch of oil on the new o-ring on the filter. Good job fingering out the problem.

Just_ Rollin'

Got new oil in there and a new filter, only one o-ring of course. I put in 4.5 quarts as the fsm calls for with a filter change and noticed the dipstick was showing near "L". I started it and let it run for about 2 minutes then shut it down, waited 30 or so minutes, and checked the dipstick again. Once again, it showed near "L". So having bought a 5 quart jug a put the rest of it in, so thats 5 quarts.

So two questions. First, what is with the low oil level reading?

The next question is, how do I know if anything was damaged? Before I drive I always let the car idle until I hear the exhaust get throaty, which is when the tach settles down to about 1000. I was doing this when the incident happened, heard the noise, saw the oil when I got out, and immediately shut down the engine. After the oil change I performed today, I noticed there was still some oil in the filter and when I took the oil pan bolt off, I saw that probably .5 to 1 quart of oil was still in there. Now considering the leak was from the oil filter, am I correct in assuming oil was blocked off from going to the pump and thus the pump didn't send oil to lubricate the engine bearings? Or was this small amount of oil left in the oil pan enough to save the engine?

I suppose I could have this mechanic look it over but I would really rather not. I just drove her around the block and didn't notice anything odd. Noises from the engine bay sound different but that could very well be the pulleys all being covered in filthy oil. The oil pressure seemed higher than normal at startup but then settled back down to just above the "L" level which is where it usually is, which I suppose also is normal considering the new oil had to be pumped throughout the engine.

Obviously I love this car, as all of you love your 'Toys,' so I would be much obliged if someone put my mind at ease as far as any potential damage goes.

Grego92

iTrader: (4)

You might want to consider changing any belts that got oil on them, oil contributes to quicker deterioration (I'm not familiar with the 3vz). It happened to me once (22re) and was puzzled because I had replaced them only a little over a year earlier, read and heard about it afterward.

Sturmcrow

Honestly, I think you'll be fine. I'm pretty sure the slurping sound you heard was air being sucked up into the pump as the oil level dropped. Since you were only idling and shut it off in seconds, you should have no problem.

btw, pretty sure the oil goes to the pump first, past the pressure transducer, through the oil filter, then into the engine. It sounds like you have it the other way in your head.

Also, most mechanics really do want the best for their customers, or at least for them to come back. I imagine the mechanic that messed up will be most agreeable to look over your engine and maybe even change out those belts. Its cheaper for them in the long run to leave you without a bad taste in your mouth. These days word of mouth can be pretty vicious with things like Yelp and Google Plus.