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I started my build on top of a 1st gen (runner) frame, finished 95% and decided for several reasons to move over to a 2nd gen. The 1st gen was drivable (around the yard) and flexed like mad. The problem I'm running into (maybe) is oil pan to tie rod clearance.
I chopped off the front of the IFS frame and rebuilt it with wider/higher arches than the 1st gen. This allowed me to retain AC pump (OBA) and stick the motor wherever I want. The motor is pretty low as it sits now. I could get away with no body lift but I added an inch just for safety margin. The truck is sitting on 40's, and being built as low as possible. Low COG and low roof height are sorta the key to this whole build. Front leafs are almost dead flat at ride, rears have about 1" arch, and mounts are tucked as high as possible. Yes, I know, Low and Leaf don't go together. I just wanted to see what I can get done with leafs before linking it, as I've never built with leafs.
Problem is that I only have 3.5" from the tie rod to the oil pan (LT pan). Lots of clearance for everything else. Now, in my XJ, I've bumpstopped it at 3" (it's also got an LS) and I bottom out often, but not hard. The bumpstops do not affect my articulation whatsoever. Just hard compression hits.
So the problem of course is that if I lift the motor for clearance, I increase my COG and then probably have to lift the body further, compounding the issue. If I lift suspension, I end up way too high. Roof is currently at 78" which I feel is about 3" too tall. I can gain an inch with an H3 pan, but that doesn't really solve the issue.
I'm just sorta mulling over options. FIxing this isn't an immediate requirement. I'll probably end up linking it in the future, in which case I'll just drill out my HS arms and flip the TRE's to the bottom, with a bent drag link. That'll gain me 4-5" clearance, at which point I can easily drop some suspension lift as well.
For other guys who've done LS swaps, what have you done about pan clearance and how tall are you? Every LS swapped toy I've seen has been sky high, which just isn't ideal for the Pacific northwest trails. The XJ with 5" lift on 35's is just right. Currently, the toy is sitting at the same height as the top of the XJ's roof basket.
That said, I'm pretty confident that I hit my COG mark. Frame is at 26" on 40's, and with no shocks installed, I can barely push the truck around. It wants to stay planted pretty well.
Last edited by Ben Feral Selinger; 09-13-2016 at 07:00 AM.
Hell, to the guys who've done an LS in a toy, what's your frame and roof height (as well as tire size)?
Everything I've seen looks taller than me (6'5") which is just too much for the trails here. Anyone get an LS into a nice low COG build?
Front leafs are almost dead flat at ride, rears have about 1" arch, and mounts are tucked as high as possible....
Problem is that I only have 3.5" from the tie rod to the oil pan (LT pan). Lots of clearance for everything else. Now, in my XJ, I've bumpstopped it at 3" (it's also got an LS) and I bottom out often, but not hard. The bumpstops do not affect my articulation whatsoever. Just hard compression hits.
nice project, that's way cool.
can't you stuff a corner to the max with a jack and see if the pan hits? no need to guess.
i don't see much upward articulation capability with those flat springs, because it's generally not good to repeatedly drive a leaf spring into negative articulation... the plus with leaf springs is that you get a variable compression rate, can't really match that with coils.
you'll surely be going hydro assist? it will complicate the clearance issues.
that front end crossmember looks like it'll rip apart, which is typical for toyotas, i would cut off the steering box mount and replace it with a plate that's at least twice as long, that's welded into both of the front crossmembers.
can't you stuff a corner to the max with a jack and see if the pan hits? no need to guess.
i don't see much upward articulation capability with those flat springs, because it's generally not good to repeatedly drive a leaf spring into negative articulation... the plus with leaf springs is that you get a variable compression rate, can't really match that with coils.
you'll surely be going hydro assist? it will complicate the clearance issues.
that front end crossmember looks like it'll rip apart, which is typical for toyotas, i would cut off the steering box mount and replace it with a plate that's at least twice as long, that's welded into both of the front crossmembers.
It articulates no problem. When one wheel comes up, the other drops, so it mostly cancels out the height of the tie rod. I'll do another test tonight (I usually lift a tire with the gantry), but I'm pretty confident articulation won't be the issue. Just big two wheel compression hits.
As for compression, everything on this build came out of the 1st gen build. It's identical except that the 2nd gen is a few hundred lbs heavier. The 1st gen was scoring well into the 1100's on the RTI, and that's ALL compression, as the rear doesn't droop more than 5 or 6". Can stuff a front tire well over 40 inches before the back tire comes up. Not at all concerned with single wheel compression.
The hyrdo ram will fit fine. I've got loads of room behind the tie rod and a 1.5" cylinder will fit well behind/under the tie rod.
What do you mean about the front CM? The entire front frame from the first body mount forward, is brand new, made of 3/16 2x3, and fish plated with 1/4" at every join. I cut out the body (front) CM to make
room for the rad. The frame CM will be welded into the body mount perches as well before I'm done. This is all still mock up stage, but I think the front is easily 3-4x stronger than a stock SFA frame at this point. The material at the steering gear mount is 3/16"x2 + 1/4"x2, minimum.
It articulates no problem. When one wheel comes up, the other drops, so it mostly cancels out the height of the tie rod.
that's kinda what i figured, i can't see where there is going to be much of a concern with the oil pan hitting, unless you hit both wheels hard at the same time, and it pushes the axle into the pan.
of course it articulates easily, the front springs are flat when the truck is level, it looks like stock.
what i'm talking about is durability, when driving the springs into negative articulation, which is what will happen with any kind of uptravel, in that flat spring setup... i would suggest posting this question on pirate, spring stuff is complicated, and you have a heavy engine in there, compared to the 22re that i run: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-...ring-flex.html
What do you mean about the front CM? The entire front frame from the first body mount forward, is brand new, made of 3/16 2x3, and fish plated with 1/4" at every join. I cut out the body (front) CM to make
room for the rad. The frame CM will be welded into the body mount perches as well before I'm done. This is all still mock up stage, but I think the front is easily 3-4x stronger than a stock SFA frame at this point. The material at the steering gear mount is 3/16"x2 + 1/4"x2, minimum.
i can't see from the pic what you did at the joint area, what i'm saying is that it's a common failure point with toyotas, for instance:
that's kinda what i figured, i can't see where there is going to be much of a concern with the oil pan hitting, unless you hit both wheels hard at the same time, and it pushes the axle into the pan.
of course it articulates easily, the front springs are flat when the truck is level, it looks like stock.
what i'm talking about is durability, when driving the springs into negative articulation, which is what will happen with any kind of uptravel, in that flat spring setup... i would suggest posting this question on pirate, spring stuff is complicated, and you have a heavy engine in there, compared to the 22re that i run: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-...ring-flex.html
i can't see from the pic what you did at the joint area, what i'm saying is that it's a common failure point with toyotas, for instance:
tying that bottom crossmember into the reinforcement plate for the steering box will help.
Take a closer look at my CM. The stock CM was completely removed. My new CM is burned in below the stock CM location on 5 sides, and I'll also be burning in some gussets between the body mount perches and the CM. It's probably bomb-proof now. It'll be meteorite proof when it's done :p.
Just chopping out the rear wells now. Daaaamn is it ever cleaner than the 1st gens. Pretty much just cut/fold everything until the rear quarter, which will probably just get chopped out and folded as well. Probably have it done in a few hours, without any extra materials required. I like.
09-13-2016, 06:58 AM
