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Low/Rough idle after warm start? 22RE
08-20-2013, 10:30 AM
#41
Hey Sparks!
I wouldn't wish this on another person. While its not a broken leg, or something of that calibre,... At least a broken leg heals, right? Hahaha...
Interesting on your TTTS being on the front of the motor. My cold start injector time switch is definitely on the front facing portion on the intake just below the throttle body, just to the left of another little bugger, the coolant temperature sensor.
As far as IDLING down during braking, hmm... Mine can do that occasionally, but its more so after coming to a stop and holding the brake for a short period. Even when it does that, will usually come out of it.
Another thing that bothers me is that I'm having to screw out the idle/air adjustment screw on the throttle body.... Just to keep the idle up which seems to still eventually fall to around 700 rpm. With more specificity: this thing seems to choose where it is going to be. Yesterday, I screwed the idle air adjusting screw out till the RPM was 800... Most often, in which I suspect today will be no different, if I set the idle higher as I did, the truck will run at 800... Only until I start stopping, killing the motor, restarting, and driving around town a bit. It seems like by the end of the next day I'm right back edit wanting to idle down to 700. That really, really, really seems like something within the system is causing a reaction between the ECU and everything else that seems to insist that it idles lower than it thinks it is! ........ I'm sure that sounds crazy, but do you understand what I mean? Like if a sensor is bad, a sensor that creates or decides a set of specs and values... If something like that goes bad, it would seem no matter what you do it's going to I'll wear it wants.
I wouldn't wish this on another person. While its not a broken leg, or something of that calibre,... At least a broken leg heals, right? Hahaha...
Interesting on your TTTS being on the front of the motor. My cold start injector time switch is definitely on the front facing portion on the intake just below the throttle body, just to the left of another little bugger, the coolant temperature sensor.
As far as IDLING down during braking, hmm... Mine can do that occasionally, but its more so after coming to a stop and holding the brake for a short period. Even when it does that, will usually come out of it.
Another thing that bothers me is that I'm having to screw out the idle/air adjustment screw on the throttle body.... Just to keep the idle up which seems to still eventually fall to around 700 rpm. With more specificity: this thing seems to choose where it is going to be. Yesterday, I screwed the idle air adjusting screw out till the RPM was 800... Most often, in which I suspect today will be no different, if I set the idle higher as I did, the truck will run at 800... Only until I start stopping, killing the motor, restarting, and driving around town a bit. It seems like by the end of the next day I'm right back edit wanting to idle down to 700. That really, really, really seems like something within the system is causing a reaction between the ECU and everything else that seems to insist that it idles lower than it thinks it is! ........ I'm sure that sounds crazy, but do you understand what I mean? Like if a sensor is bad, a sensor that creates or decides a set of specs and values... If something like that goes bad, it would seem no matter what you do it's going to I'll wear it wants.
I know my problem isn't the brake booster...I've tested that and plus the problem can happen whether I have my foot on the brake during a warm start or not. I'll take a picture of the sensor I'm talking about and post it tonight. Hope fully someone can confirm whether I'm right or wrong. I know there's no sensor on the top of my thermostat housing.
08-20-2013, 10:57 AM
#42
Yeah that makes some sense. That's why we jumper the e1 and TE 1 pins in the diagnostic port... Well, at least in 87+(86 and under is a round plug on driver side?).... Anyway, that is why you would jump for those pins is to determine whether your TPS is even operating at all. The idle should definitely drop.
I actually have quite a bit to do in my engine bay including replacing the TPS connector. The clips on the plastic portion where the retainer ring that is supposed to hold on to the TPS should be have snapped off, & I basically just make sure it's all there on occasions. It still holds on there pretty snug but its not ideal but I would rather have it tight. My point in mentioning that is that I will be checking over quite a few things while in there.
I'm also replacing my valve cover gasket and half moons, replacing some heater hose that goes to the heater core and then around to the driver side portion of the timing cover, behind the exhaust... And there are a couple other little things while I am in there. While I am pulling that heater core hose, I might end up just swapping in a cold start injector time switch. I know that seems like an odd thing for me to connect the dots on... But I don't want to go through coolant more than I have to... And to be honest, this has become so annoying that it's worth it to me, even if the odds are not 50/50. At least I can roll it out! Lol. I'm a try the proper part number from an 89 Celica or whatever I saw previously in this thread. I have to go to the yard anyway for my daughters Lexus.
I actually have quite a bit to do in my engine bay including replacing the TPS connector. The clips on the plastic portion where the retainer ring that is supposed to hold on to the TPS should be have snapped off, & I basically just make sure it's all there on occasions. It still holds on there pretty snug but its not ideal but I would rather have it tight. My point in mentioning that is that I will be checking over quite a few things while in there.
I'm also replacing my valve cover gasket and half moons, replacing some heater hose that goes to the heater core and then around to the driver side portion of the timing cover, behind the exhaust... And there are a couple other little things while I am in there. While I am pulling that heater core hose, I might end up just swapping in a cold start injector time switch. I know that seems like an odd thing for me to connect the dots on... But I don't want to go through coolant more than I have to... And to be honest, this has become so annoying that it's worth it to me, even if the odds are not 50/50. At least I can roll it out! Lol. I'm a try the proper part number from an 89 Celica or whatever I saw previously in this thread. I have to go to the yard anyway for my daughters Lexus.
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 08-20-2013 at 11:52 AM.
08-20-2013, 11:58 AM
#43
By the way, there is this one guy that works at the parts counter at my nearby dealer... The guy couldn't find a hat on his freaking head! I literally end up coaching him through most of it and he's cocky and acting as though I'm wrong and then he ends up almost every single time giving me a part number for the wrong part. I almost have to go down there and stand in front of him and look at the diagram and tell him, "THAT, right there!" Grrrrrrr! The numbers that were given, above, are nothing close to what he gave me for the thermo temp time switch ..... 83430-96440 ..... WTH? Now I'm going to have to look that up just for fun. Until then, I have to wait till the other guy gets back from lunch. I don't know why I even talk to this guy, I must be a masochist! Lol
The cold start injector time switch number that he gave me is 89462-20010......
The cold start injector time switch number that he gave me is 89462-20010......
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 08-20-2013 at 12:03 PM.
08-20-2013, 12:02 PM
#44
Yep, as I thought, not even close to the thermostat housing and yet somehow the temperature sending unit in the middle of the intake is what he got......
http://www.autopartoo.com/oem/toyota/8343096440.html
http://www.toyotapartszone.com/oem/t...430-96440.html
Looks like you got the cold start injector time switch part number correct... If you look at the years, its very narrow from August of 87 to the same in 88... Also look at the price from Toyotapartszone.com .....
http://www.toyotapartszone.com/oem/t...462-20010.html
Looks like for $100 less I will definitely wait for that little bastard to be shipped if I do replace it. Just need to make sure on the manufacturing date of my truck, maybe use the van and look it up that way, manually......
GOOD THING I DID!.... I get this when I put in my VIN#:
"4-RUNNER TRUCK 1987 USARN61LV-MSEA 198704 22REC SR5 V MTM 5F W ST EFI CBU FL11 3D7
Sorry, this part does not fit your vehicle.Please verify if the VIN you entered is correct. As an alternative, you may instead:˟Search our˟Complete Parts Catalog"...
Looking manually I got this...
Toyota Part:
"SWITCH, START INJECT
Part NO.:89462-30011"
This is what I mean by good parts guys... He never asked me, this one dude, what month nor the VIN# or anything. My old buddy Mikey always had my VIN# and phone number and parts discount number in a little notebook along with hundreds of others. This guy just simply does the job to get more upgrades to his piece of crap ghetto'd out 2007 2wheel drive 4 runner! Oh well, doesn't matter because I wouldn't pay that price even with my 20 percent.( by the way, even if that is the upgraded part number 20010, he would know that, because he told me straight out that he can't find The Bulletin without his manager... The guy has been there 4 years!)
http://www.autopartoo.com/oem/toyota/8343096440.html
http://www.toyotapartszone.com/oem/t...430-96440.html
Looks like you got the cold start injector time switch part number correct... If you look at the years, its very narrow from August of 87 to the same in 88... Also look at the price from Toyotapartszone.com .....
http://www.toyotapartszone.com/oem/t...462-20010.html
Looks like for $100 less I will definitely wait for that little bastard to be shipped if I do replace it. Just need to make sure on the manufacturing date of my truck, maybe use the van and look it up that way, manually......
GOOD THING I DID!.... I get this when I put in my VIN#:
"4-RUNNER TRUCK 1987 USARN61LV-MSEA 198704 22REC SR5 V MTM 5F W ST EFI CBU FL11 3D7
Sorry, this part does not fit your vehicle.Please verify if the VIN you entered is correct. As an alternative, you may instead:˟Search our˟Complete Parts Catalog"...
Looking manually I got this...
Toyota Part:
"SWITCH, START INJECT
Part NO.:89462-30011"
This is what I mean by good parts guys... He never asked me, this one dude, what month nor the VIN# or anything. My old buddy Mikey always had my VIN# and phone number and parts discount number in a little notebook along with hundreds of others. This guy just simply does the job to get more upgrades to his piece of crap ghetto'd out 2007 2wheel drive 4 runner! Oh well, doesn't matter because I wouldn't pay that price even with my 20 percent.( by the way, even if that is the upgraded part number 20010, he would know that, because he told me straight out that he can't find The Bulletin without his manager... The guy has been there 4 years!)
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 08-20-2013 at 12:21 PM.
08-20-2013, 12:58 PM
#45
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I have both of the indicated parts for sale.
cold start injector time
& the tempurture switch #2
complete with instructions and the toyota service manual bulletin.
cold start injector time
& the tempurture switch #2
complete with instructions and the toyota service manual bulletin.
08-21-2013, 12:09 AM
#46
I previously replaced the thermo temp time switch, or in other words the temperature switch number 2... As I mentioned I think my parts guy the time is one that would get it right and find something like that. I'm still trying to find the part number on that sensor without removing it.
08-22-2013, 09:33 AM
#47
I got sidetracked with the leaky valve cover gasket kit... Replace an adjusting valves and I'm going to get back at this as soon as possible. Sent you a PM, city slicker.
I'm also needing to replace the heater hose that goes to the hard part which ones up into the back of the driver side timing cover... I'm just thinking I might wait on that until I have a switch to swap out. I still can't figure out 100 percent if the switch that I got at the dealer is the proper part number in regards to the thermostat housing. (Switch #2)... That's probably the only receipt and box that I cannot find it.
I'm also needing to replace the heater hose that goes to the hard part which ones up into the back of the driver side timing cover... I'm just thinking I might wait on that until I have a switch to swap out. I still can't figure out 100 percent if the switch that I got at the dealer is the proper part number in regards to the thermostat housing. (Switch #2)... That's probably the only receipt and box that I cannot find it.
08-22-2013, 10:52 AM
#49
Ok, found this as well (MR2 forum... But also found others in 83 87 Toyota truck section and so forth)....
"Ok -- so I swapped out the water temperature sensor and the opposite side switchpart numbers 89422-12010 & 89428-28030 . This has taken care of the problem.˟Overall - had to buy/use a deep socket 19mm & 17mm to take them off (darn 3 trips to Ace hardware to get the right ones). I removed the battery & air pipe, socketed the part off - unscrewed by hand and reclaimed the washer - put liquid gasket on the new piece - screwed it back in. I was surprised to only lose like 6 tbsp of coolant as well as maybe 2 tbsp from the other side.Hooked it all back up, turned it over and all good. Did the check engine code with a paper clip and it's flashing once now (ALL GOOD).˟"
http://www.mr2.com/forums/attachment...emp-sensor.jpg
"Ok -- so I swapped out the water temperature sensor and the opposite side switchpart numbers 89422-12010 & 89428-28030 . This has taken care of the problem.˟Overall - had to buy/use a deep socket 19mm & 17mm to take them off (darn 3 trips to Ace hardware to get the right ones). I removed the battery & air pipe, socketed the part off - unscrewed by hand and reclaimed the washer - put liquid gasket on the new piece - screwed it back in. I was surprised to only lose like 6 tbsp of coolant as well as maybe 2 tbsp from the other side.Hooked it all back up, turned it over and all good. Did the check engine code with a paper clip and it's flashing once now (ALL GOOD).˟"
http://www.mr2.com/forums/attachment...emp-sensor.jpg
08-31-2013, 05:14 PM
#50
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I seem to be having a similar problem. My 94 4X4 extra cab 22-RE starts fine, but the idle drops below 500RPM when it warms up. I checked the resistance on the water temperature sensor (89422-20010), and it is 2000 ohms when at ambient temperature (about 85 degrees F) and 500 ohms when at operating temperature. When I run the truck with the water temperature sensor disconnected, it starts a bit higher (~1200 RPM) but still drops to 500 RPM when at operating temperature. Jumping e1 and TE1 does reduce the RPM of the engine. I'd appreciate some help walking me through possible solutions, so I can eliminate this problem. This problem has only existed for the past week. My check engine light hasn't gone on to identify any problem.
Last edited by 4Xtruck; 08-31-2013 at 05:29 PM.
02-23-2014, 07:37 AM
#53
By the way, I cannot really 100 percent define or put a finger on what exactly my problem was. But not too long ago, after every sensor in this thing is brand new Toyota factory, pretty much,... I went to test an ECU for someone that was going to purchase one... My truck smooth out, lost its rough idle in part, and stopped by laying down on warm restarts or anything of the sort... Needless to say, I kept that ECU and got him another one. Anyhow, my point is that there are so many things with these older systems in trucks that could go wrong. But you need to work a process of elimination from the end back. Most of the things that can cause major problems will either throw a code or cause one. Working your way from the end, backward, will likely help you to pinpoint the culprit a little more. When you understand the entire system, then you actually can work from the end back. And it also means but you will much more likely find the problem before you start throwing parts at it. I know how frustrating this crap is but if you don't figure out how it all works, you're going to wind up chasing your tail every few months.
Best to you man!
02-23-2014, 10:15 AM
#54
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Over the summer I was having problems with low idle after warmup, I removed the EFI intake and throttle body and cleaned it completely. After cleaning the intake I put it back together and the problem changed from to low of an idle to very high idle. I tried to adjust idle at the idle adjustment screw and nothing happened. I tested the timing and found it to be right on target. I had tested the idle air control valve and found it to be working properly...so I thought. At the same time this issue was taking place in the mornings when it was very cold or even moderately cold I could not get it to start with out spraying with starting fluid. I replaced the cold start injector, time switch and the thermal sensor. The idle issue when warm was solved but I still couldn't get her to start or idle down. Out of frustration I pulled the throttle body off and removed the IACV and found it not responsive after testing it. I replaced with a new one and finally she idles down properly. But my truck still wouldn't start right in the mornings. I knew at this point it had to be a computer issue or wiring. The time switch and cold start injector were not connected to starter and were not getting power. I still have to crank the engine over two to three times normally and four when its extremely cold but it now starts without starting fluid. I don't know if any of this helps but I figured it couldn't hurt to share it with you. My engine is an 89 22RE
02-28-2014, 01:48 PM
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Over the summer I was having problems with low idle after warmup, I removed the EFI intake and throttle body and cleaned it completely. After cleaning the intake I put it back together and the problem changed from to low of an idle to very high idle. I tried to adjust idle at the idle adjustment screw and nothing happened. I tested the timing and found it to be right on target. I had tested the idle air control valve and found it to be working properly...so I thought. At the same time this issue was taking place in the mornings when it was very cold or even moderately cold I could not get it to start with out spraying with starting fluid. I replaced the cold start injector, time switch and the thermal sensor. The idle issue when warm was solved but I still couldn't get her to start or idle down. Out of frustration I pulled the throttle body off and removed the IACV and found it not responsive after testing it. I replaced with a new one and finally she idles down properly. But my truck still wouldn't start right in the mornings. I knew at this point it had to be a computer issue or wiring. The time switch and cold start injector were not connected to starter and were not getting power. I still have to crank the engine over two to three times normally and four when its extremely cold but it now starts without starting fluid. I don't know if any of this helps but I figured it couldn't hurt to share it with you. My engine is an 89 22RE
hey chef, that did sort of help me, but on the flip side, i had replaced my upper intake manifold with an 89-94 manifold, for more breathability, and so with that said, i got rid of the pesky auxillary air valve and now have the IAC from those years along with a big bore throttle body (brand new) so I'm trying to rule out having to clean those out since i cleaned the manifold before i stuck it in.
also, i had a couple of ECU's sitting around and swapped them, no deals, it still did the same thing. so, i'm here stuck with this problem and i pretty much checked the whole system... BUT, any help is always appreciated! thanks much for that!
02-28-2014, 01:49 PM
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02-28-2014, 02:03 PM
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hey Dr. actually, this condition you're having is "normal" since it has an auxiliary air valve to help bump up the idle when cold. you got nothing to worry about hehe
11-21-2014, 08:07 PM
#60
Hey guys just resurrecting this thread, I've been chasing this problem for months myself.
It all seemed to start around the time I did the battery/intake swap.
Symptoms:
-starts up fine cold
-runs great on the road
-after engine off and heat soak, engine idles low and rough until you get going
Check to see if your intake air temp (IAT) sensor is getting heat soaked by the AFM housing.
Short version:
Try pouring ice water on the AFM when it's doing the crappy low startup idle and see what happens....
Long version:
I'm also getting CEL lights cruising on the highway, O2 lean. I can clear the CEL by blipping the throttle.. which would make sense because that would un-heatsoak the IAT for a brief moment.
What I want to do now is remove the IAT from the AFM and relocate it somewhere shielded/insulated where it won't get soaked, like right behind the filter in my intake tube before the AFM. Or maybe I could just move the whole AFM itself or shield it really well. Anyone know how hard it would be to find a matching temp sensor that I could mount externally from the AFM? I imagine pretty hard. Luckily I have a spare AFM I can try to rip it out of....
Let me know if you guys have success with this diagnosis procedure. I've been able to reproduce it about 3 times in a row shouting "hallelujah" at the top of my lungs each time as I hear the engine start to run buttery smooth... doing nothing but pouring some dang icewater on the stupid AFM. My IAT is getting super heat soaked, problem solved. I am sure of it. Now I am wondering if y'all are having the exact same issue...
It all seemed to start around the time I did the battery/intake swap.
Symptoms:
-starts up fine cold
-runs great on the road
-after engine off and heat soak, engine idles low and rough until you get going
Check to see if your intake air temp (IAT) sensor is getting heat soaked by the AFM housing.
Short version:
Try pouring ice water on the AFM when it's doing the crappy low startup idle and see what happens....
Long version:
- Stick a multimeter in ECU's THA terminal to read intake air temp voltage at the ECU.
- Go drive around and get the engine nice and hot like normal, write down voltage during throttle open.
- Turn the car off and keep ignition on
- Notice the voltage drop (lower voltage = hotter sensor)
- Turn the ign off & wait 10-20min
- Turn ign on and take note of the voltage, it has probably dropped a ton (heat soaked IAT sensor condition)
- Try starting the car, crap idle like usual.
- Pour icewater on AFM (careful not to get any in your air filter if you have a K&N style) until multimeter reads a similar voltage to the one you recorded earlier
- Start back up... Vroom?
I'm also getting CEL lights cruising on the highway, O2 lean. I can clear the CEL by blipping the throttle.. which would make sense because that would un-heatsoak the IAT for a brief moment.
What I want to do now is remove the IAT from the AFM and relocate it somewhere shielded/insulated where it won't get soaked, like right behind the filter in my intake tube before the AFM. Or maybe I could just move the whole AFM itself or shield it really well. Anyone know how hard it would be to find a matching temp sensor that I could mount externally from the AFM? I imagine pretty hard. Luckily I have a spare AFM I can try to rip it out of....
Let me know if you guys have success with this diagnosis procedure. I've been able to reproduce it about 3 times in a row shouting "hallelujah" at the top of my lungs each time as I hear the engine start to run buttery smooth... doing nothing but pouring some dang icewater on the stupid AFM. My IAT is getting super heat soaked, problem solved. I am sure of it. Now I am wondering if y'all are having the exact same issue...
