Lots of Lighting in the Planning Stage ... Need help from the Pro's!
02-13-2012, 06:59 PM
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Lots of Lighting in the Planning Stage ... Need help from the Pro's!
So I'm trying to figure out what to tackle next on my '93 and I think I'll end up saving up to do my lights right. I'll be enlisting as much electrical help as I can from those of you out there who know how to handle a wire. I've done a fair amount of house wiring, but my automotive electrical knowledge is at about the level of your average fifth grader. I should know more because I've had several courses on electricity through high school and college, but lets face the facts: KNOWING (and forgetting) and APPLYING are two very different animals.
What I want to do is this ... and I'll try to explain as best as I can.
- Fog lights: Work via 2-way switch in the dash. ON - Lights only come on when at least the parking lights are on (and obviously stay on for the low and high beams) and shut off when you turn your hi/lo/park lights off.
- Off-road (grill) lights: Work via 3-way switch in the dash. ON #1. Lights come on without the need for anything else to be on (wired to the battery). OFF - they're off. ON #2 - Lights are only on when hi-beams are on.
- Cargo lights: I have a dash bezel from a '93 4Runner that was equipped with the rear defroster and I was thinking of running my light on my campershell to this, through my quick-disconnect plug. I'm not sure if the defrost switch is on some sort of timer though so it might not work. I was also thinking of installing some Bed Rail lighting that would work off of the same switch.
- While we're at it lets go ahead and install another DPST switch for some back up lighting: Work via 3-way switch in the dash. ON #1. Lights come on without the need for anything else to be on (wired to the battery). OFF - they're off. ON #2 - Lights are only on when truck is in reverse.
I guess before any of this I should probably beef up my electrical system? See my Alternator thread
Any input on how to do all this in an effective, sturdy, tidy, safely, and non-costly a way as possible would be awesome. Thanks!!
What I want to do is this ... and I'll try to explain as best as I can.
- Fog lights: Work via 2-way switch in the dash. ON - Lights only come on when at least the parking lights are on (and obviously stay on for the low and high beams) and shut off when you turn your hi/lo/park lights off.
- Off-road (grill) lights: Work via 3-way switch in the dash. ON #1. Lights come on without the need for anything else to be on (wired to the battery). OFF - they're off. ON #2 - Lights are only on when hi-beams are on.
- Cargo lights: I have a dash bezel from a '93 4Runner that was equipped with the rear defroster and I was thinking of running my light on my campershell to this, through my quick-disconnect plug. I'm not sure if the defrost switch is on some sort of timer though so it might not work. I was also thinking of installing some Bed Rail lighting that would work off of the same switch.
- While we're at it lets go ahead and install another DPST switch for some back up lighting: Work via 3-way switch in the dash. ON #1. Lights come on without the need for anything else to be on (wired to the battery). OFF - they're off. ON #2 - Lights are only on when truck is in reverse.
I guess before any of this I should probably beef up my electrical system? See my Alternator thread
Any input on how to do all this in an effective, sturdy, tidy, safely, and non-costly a way as possible would be awesome. Thanks!!
Last edited by bluAM2; 02-13-2012 at 07:17 PM.
02-13-2012, 07:52 PM
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The biggest thing with lighting (or any DC power) is amperage and being able to support the demand. Before you figure out how u want the lights to work, figure out the amperage per circuit and purchase switches and wire accordingly I don't know the amperage rating on the rear defrost switch but i highly doubt it will support more than 10 or 20 amps. Then see if u will be able to hook the lights up to the existing circuits u want to utilize, I.e. high beam, low beam, reverse lights. Personally I haven't seen the set up u are talking about, usually I just turn the switch on when I want the light on, much better to keep it simple and use a label maker if needed. 
02-13-2012, 08:25 PM
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Believe me, I'm all about simple. But I'm also thinking simple in operating them too. I'd like to use my aux lights with my hi-beams while driving, but when I come up on someone I don't want to blind them momentarily while I switch both my brights and aux lights off separately. I'd prefer they both shut off with one action, hence tying them into the hi-beam circuit. But I'd also like to use my aux lights for what they are ... auxillary lights. I'd like to flip a switch and have light if I'm somewhere camping. Same thing with the rear lights too.
02-13-2012, 08:26 PM
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Forgot to say thank you for all the info though!! I've never had to deal with relays before so that'll be new territory. Shouldn't be too hard (as I'm sure the rest of the world knows) I just haven't done anything with them ... ever
02-13-2012, 08:57 PM
#6
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Your best bang-for-your-buck in auxiliary lights will be an HID conversion in some reflectors that use H3 bulbs (for example, Hella 500's or 700's). You'll get a hell a lot more light per amp (like 5x more) than halogens too.
My recommendation, DDM tuning's 55W HID conversion kit: http://www.ddmtuning.com/Products/DD...ast-35W-or-55W
For $50/pair and 5000 lumens per bulb, they're pretty much unbeatable. Get the 4500K ones and never look back!
http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.ph...&topic=8171.30
My recommendation, DDM tuning's 55W HID conversion kit: http://www.ddmtuning.com/Products/DD...ast-35W-or-55W
For $50/pair and 5000 lumens per bulb, they're pretty much unbeatable. Get the 4500K ones and never look back!
http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.ph...&topic=8171.30
02-14-2012, 07:11 AM
#7
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Ur welcome man. If u have any other questions feel free to pm me. I've got a few set ups under my belt, but like i said, nothing as elaborate as u r describing. Keep me updated tho if u can get it to work right, that will bring on some more ideas for my rig. Lol
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02-14-2012, 08:28 AM
#8
diodes & relays. you can get by anything with using those
eg:
diode from high-beams to aux light relay, and a diode from aux light switch to the same relay. this would turn on/off the aux lights with the high-beams, and you could still turn on the aux lights without turning on the high-beams.
i don't have a wiring diagram in front of me, so that's the best i can do for now.
eg:
diode from high-beams to aux light relay, and a diode from aux light switch to the same relay. this would turn on/off the aux lights with the high-beams, and you could still turn on the aux lights without turning on the high-beams.
i don't have a wiring diagram in front of me, so that's the best i can do for now.
02-14-2012, 09:57 AM
#9
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diodes & relays. you can get by anything with using those
eg:
diode from high-beams to aux light relay, and a diode from aux light switch to the same relay. this would turn on/off the aux lights with the high-beams, and you could still turn on the aux lights without turning on the high-beams.
i don't have a wiring diagram in front of me, so that's the best i can do for now.
eg:
diode from high-beams to aux light relay, and a diode from aux light switch to the same relay. this would turn on/off the aux lights with the high-beams, and you could still turn on the aux lights without turning on the high-beams.
i don't have a wiring diagram in front of me, so that's the best i can do for now.
85+86 are the coil wires.
30 is fused, direct power from the battery
87 is output. When you power 85 and 86 via a switch of your choice, the relay engages and allows current to flow directly from your fused battery wire (30) through the relay and out terminal 87.
87A (always on, as they say). When the relay is NOT powered, 30 and 87a are connected, meaning you'll be pumping juice through the relay and to terminal 87a. When you flip your switch and engage the relay via 85 and 86, then 87a becomes dead and 87 gets power.
Most people don't use 87a, but it certainly has it's purposes.
A diode is like a one way gate for electricity to run. It can go one way through the diode, but cannot go the other way. NEVER wire a diode into a high current application. They can handle lots of voltage, but very, very low current. So that means that you'll be using your diodes in conjunction with the relay, but ONLY on the 85 and 86 terminals, unless you're using a relay to trigger another relay.
Example: as irab said- if you were to set up your factory headlights to be dual beams (not recommended unless you've upgraded the wiring at a minimum) you'd use the 87 terminal on the high beam relay to trigger the low beam relay to engage, thus giving you hi/lo at the same time. There needs to be a diode between the 87terminal of the high relay and the trigger (85 or 86, depending on how you want it switched) terminal of the low relay so that when your lows come on, your highs don't also come on by backfeeding the relay.
I'm blabbering. And if all of that is confusing, read this:
http://www.classictruckshop.com/club...osch/relay.htm
Last edited by shaeff; 02-14-2012 at 10:01 AM.
02-14-2012, 08:51 PM
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diodes & relays. you can get by anything with using those
eg:
diode from high-beams to aux light relay, and a diode from aux light switch to the same relay. this would turn on/off the aux lights with the high-beams, and you could still turn on the aux lights without turning on the high-beams.
i don't have a wiring diagram in front of me, so that's the best i can do for now.
eg:
diode from high-beams to aux light relay, and a diode from aux light switch to the same relay. this would turn on/off the aux lights with the high-beams, and you could still turn on the aux lights without turning on the high-beams.
i don't have a wiring diagram in front of me, so that's the best i can do for now.
02-14-2012, 09:00 PM
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Right on. Learn how a relay works. Those numbers on the bottom aren't random. Each number is used for something specific.
85+86 are the coil wires.
30 is fused, direct power from the battery
87 is output. When you power 85 and 86 via a switch of your choice, the relay engages and allows current to flow directly from your fused battery wire (30) through the relay and out terminal 87.
87A (always on, as they say). When the relay is NOT powered, 30 and 87a are connected, meaning you'll be pumping juice through the relay and to terminal 87a. When you flip your switch and engage the relay via 85 and 86, then 87a becomes dead and 87 gets power.
Most people don't use 87a, but it certainly has it's purposes.
A diode is like a one way gate for electricity to run. It can go one way through the diode, but cannot go the other way. NEVER wire a diode into a high current application. They can handle lots of voltage, but very, very low current. So that means that you'll be using your diodes in conjunction with the relay, but ONLY on the 85 and 86 terminals, unless you're using a relay to trigger another relay.
Example: as irab said- if you were to set up your factory headlights to be dual beams (not recommended unless you've upgraded the wiring at a minimum) you'd use the 87 terminal on the high beam relay to trigger the low beam relay to engage, thus giving you hi/lo at the same time. There needs to be a diode between the 87terminal of the high relay and the trigger (85 or 86, depending on how you want it switched) terminal of the low relay so that when your lows come on, your highs don't also come on by backfeeding the relay.
I'm blabbering. And if all of that is confusing, read this:
http://www.classictruckshop.com/club...osch/relay.htm
85+86 are the coil wires.
30 is fused, direct power from the battery
87 is output. When you power 85 and 86 via a switch of your choice, the relay engages and allows current to flow directly from your fused battery wire (30) through the relay and out terminal 87.
87A (always on, as they say). When the relay is NOT powered, 30 and 87a are connected, meaning you'll be pumping juice through the relay and to terminal 87a. When you flip your switch and engage the relay via 85 and 86, then 87a becomes dead and 87 gets power.
Most people don't use 87a, but it certainly has it's purposes.
A diode is like a one way gate for electricity to run. It can go one way through the diode, but cannot go the other way. NEVER wire a diode into a high current application. They can handle lots of voltage, but very, very low current. So that means that you'll be using your diodes in conjunction with the relay, but ONLY on the 85 and 86 terminals, unless you're using a relay to trigger another relay.
Example: as irab said- if you were to set up your factory headlights to be dual beams (not recommended unless you've upgraded the wiring at a minimum) you'd use the 87 terminal on the high beam relay to trigger the low beam relay to engage, thus giving you hi/lo at the same time. There needs to be a diode between the 87terminal of the high relay and the trigger (85 or 86, depending on how you want it switched) terminal of the low relay so that when your lows come on, your highs don't also come on by backfeeding the relay.
I'm blabbering. And if all of that is confusing, read this:
http://www.classictruckshop.com/club...osch/relay.htm
Another question. What are the best brands of Off-Road lights out there? I've never owned any before and I was originally looking at Hella Black Magic 1000s, but realized that if I put these behind the grill like I'm planning, there's going to be lots of wasted light because they're 8" lights and I think my opening in the grill is more like 5". I was also looking at the KC 26 & 35 series lights (2"x6" & 3"x5"). These ones are rectangular (just like the rest of the hardware on the front of a 92-95) whereas Hellas are primarily round I think. As with the rest of the truck, I'm trying to get as much functionality as I can while either maintaining or improving the look. Inputs?
02-14-2012, 11:47 PM
#13
Remember not to block your air flow too much, radiator still needs air to cool.
I had 2 8" dick cepek off road lights one my '86 4runner and ended up spacing them further apart, ran hot in the summer.
You also will find you don't have as much room behind the grill as you might think.
Upgrade your headlights first...
I had 2 8" dick cepek off road lights one my '86 4runner and ended up spacing them further apart, ran hot in the summer.
You also will find you don't have as much room behind the grill as you might think.
Upgrade your headlights first...
02-15-2012, 08:56 AM
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Remember not to block your air flow too much, radiator still needs air to cool.
I had 2 8" dick cepek off road lights one my '86 4runner and ended up spacing them further apart, ran hot in the summer.
You also will find you don't have as much room behind the grill as you might think.
Upgrade your headlights first...
I had 2 8" dick cepek off road lights one my '86 4runner and ended up spacing them further apart, ran hot in the summer.
You also will find you don't have as much room behind the grill as you might think.
Upgrade your headlights first...
(I have FX's retrofitted on my M3, but the setup is different obviously, so I'm waiting to see exactly what the spread looks like before making any potentially unnecessary purchases.)
02-15-2012, 09:39 AM
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I'm with you guys. I'm still in the planning stage. I opened up my grill so I'm getting a LOT more airflow than I normally did before,
but it'll definitely block some air. And when I did the mod I was sure to note just how tight it is back there, but they do make some slim line lights that will fit. It's just a matter of finding the right ones. I'm not a huge fan of the xenon to be honest. I like brighter halogens that will be about the same color as factory headlights, just brighter. I know it wont be as bright as an HID kit or something like that, but I'm alright with that. And yes, I will definitely upgrade my headlight harness. I'm subscribed to both irab88 and drmix's threads on their wiring jobs for that exact reason
but it'll definitely block some air. And when I did the mod I was sure to note just how tight it is back there, but they do make some slim line lights that will fit. It's just a matter of finding the right ones. I'm not a huge fan of the xenon to be honest. I like brighter halogens that will be about the same color as factory headlights, just brighter. I know it wont be as bright as an HID kit or something like that, but I'm alright with that. And yes, I will definitely upgrade my headlight harness. I'm subscribed to both irab88 and drmix's threads on their wiring jobs for that exact reason
Last edited by bluAM2; 02-15-2012 at 09:41 AM.
02-15-2012, 09:47 AM
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^ This.
Quality (autopal/hella/roundeyes) housings, headlight relay harness, and quality halogen bulbs will provide PLENTY of light.
If you've done that and still want more, go for aux lights. If you think aux lights are cool and just want aux lights, go for aux lights.
Quality (autopal/hella/roundeyes) housings, headlight relay harness, and quality halogen bulbs will provide PLENTY of light.
If you've done that and still want more, go for aux lights. If you think aux lights are cool and just want aux lights, go for aux lights.
02-15-2012, 08:22 PM
#19
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Yeah definitely do the headlights first then see if you need more. You can do the whole headlight upgrade for about $80. Heres the pics I said I would take of my headlight relays and fuse panel in a box.
I got the relays and fuse spots labeled with a label maker but for some reason it didnt show the writing in the pics. Still working on a way to mount it so for now it sits in the back left corner of the engine bay on its side but doesnt move at all.
The fuse panel I picked has 6 spots so theres room to add more to it. Ill most likely be upgrading to a slightly bigger box to add a couple more relays to in the future but for now it will work.
I got the relays and fuse spots labeled with a label maker but for some reason it didnt show the writing in the pics. Still working on a way to mount it so for now it sits in the back left corner of the engine bay on its side but doesnt move at all.
The fuse panel I picked has 6 spots so theres room to add more to it. Ill most likely be upgrading to a slightly bigger box to add a couple more relays to in the future but for now it will work.
