When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Did you click on the install links that Flamethrower has on the Ebay description? I know one of them is mine despite the fact I've stated my opinion on the grey tops as not best on a stock engine. The information is out there to make an informed purchase on his own ad.
In my case, I have cams and a cat-back plus a full rebuild and I was running lean at the top with stock injectors so this was a near perfect solution for me. I even went over some of my tuning tricks with the afm and ECU fuel trims.
Did you come on here to bitch old blue, or did you have something you wanted to add to the conversation?
i wasn't bitching but i'll add to the conversation. you admitted that you timed the engine wrong and overfilled the oil. i'm sure your truck was running like ˟˟˟˟. then you started goofing with the vafm settings. now i'm sure your truck is running like garbage. the same mechanical genius that did all this also "rebuilt" an engine, ˟˟˟˟ing god knows what up in the process. but somehow you came to the conclusion it must have been the fuel injectors. i just hate seeing someone bash anothers product or company with no solid ground to stand on. please tell me how you diagnosed that the injectors were at fault?
The first set of Orange tops were bad and FT replaced them with the Grey tops and they have worked fine since.
I test lower the idle down to about 300 rpm and it is still smooth.
Passes CA smog with flying colors.
I ordered up the $135 grey Flamethrower injectors last week via eBay... they arrived 4 days later. I put them in over the weekend (It wasn't as hard as I thought... but it is the most involved job I've done on the 3VZE... took me about 6 hours total, but I was cleaning up stuff and taking my time) and it fired right up first try once the fuel reached all 6 injectors.
The only adjustment I made was to back down the idle a bit. I had 148K on the old injectors and they weren't all that bad...just kinda noisy (ticking). I did lean out my VAFM two clicks clockwise... but I wound up putting it back after a couple of drives. I am at 3 clicks lean past the stock with timing set around 13-14 degrees, plugs gapped at .36. 148K on a '92 3VZE that has been pampered most of her life. Amsoil 10W-30 Z-Rod with the extra zddp. She pulls evenly from 1K on up... no more "jump" in power at 3K.
i used a fuel injector set from ebay around 125.00
the 4 hole upgrade.
also did timing belt kit and moved the timing to 12.5
cleaned everything.
now the truck idles better, but the best part is how smooth the engine runs.
there is no engine vibration at cruse speed, feels like the engine is off.
1991 4runner 105k miles.
I had put reman'd injectors in about 9 months ago with little to no improvement. Flow was increased by 15-20% but no substantial difference.
Took those out, sold 'em and bought flamethrowers. These have made a difference! You know how most people have a "boost" in power at around 2800 RPM where you feel the truck start to pick up? With the flamethrowers it changes the power curve and I get that "boost" at around 1700 RPM. Less throttle for more power. I'm really happy with them.
Granted though, I've got a modified air intake and cat-back exhaust so my truck can pass through a lot more air than a stock one. In order to keep air/fuel ratios closer, a stock truck may not get as great of performance from the injectors as mine but others have also reported better power. Some have also stated higher MPG's but mine didn't change at all.
any chance do you know the numbers that are on the side of the injectors i need to replace my standard ones asap and carnt wait 2/3weeks forpostage off ebay
thanks jono
Been running a set of these since I did a head replacement (the 'ole burned valves thing) in 2012 or 2013, they have been great for a good while - nice improvement from the stock ones.
But past few weeks 95 'Runner 3VZE had a bad miss problem, and looking at it found my #4 connector pulled loose from harness a bit,(brittle old connector clips are long gone) popped it back together and ran better but still had a miss. Replaced all ignition parts from rotor out to plugs, tested compression - 120psi on all - not great but ok for 330K miles.
Pulling cables from distributor says problem on #1, no difference in miss with #1 out..
Took it all apart this weekend and cleaned all connectors and electrical greased them and zip tied 'em tight.
#1 still missed. Like a dumbass I did not ohm out the injector when I had the thing apart. Ooops. But anyway
I have seen on this thread where there have been probs in the past with the orange injectors - emailed flamethrower for tips and said he would get a new set out to me since I had the orange ones and they are known to have issues. Pretty dang awesome they extended the warranty on these to 5 years!
See how fast the mail works, maybe I can get them for the nice weather this weekend in TN and get 'em in Sunday. Will post back when I do.
Been running a set of these since I did a head replacement (the 'ole burned valves thing) in 2012 or 2013, they have been great for a good while - nice improvement from the stock ones.
But past few weeks 95 'Runner 3VZE had a bad miss problem, and looking at it found my #4 connector pulled loose from harness a bit,(brittle old connector clips are long gone) popped it back together and ran better but still had a miss. Replaced all ignition parts from rotor out to plugs, tested compression - 120psi on all - not great but ok for 330K miles.
Pulling cables from distributor says problem on #1, no difference in miss with #1 out..
Took it all apart this weekend and cleaned all connectors and electrical greased them and zip tied 'em tight.
#1 still missed. Like a dumbass I did not ohm out the injector when I had the thing apart. Ooops. But anyway
I have seen on this thread where there have been probs in the past with the orange injectors - emailed flamethrower for tips and said he would get a new set out to me since I had the orange ones and they are known to have issues. Pretty dang awesome they extended the warranty on these to 5 years!
See how fast the mail works, maybe I can get them for the nice weather this weekend in TN and get 'em in Sunday. Will post back when I do.
Would you still recommend them? I'm tempted to get in with another KS sensor and swap injectors.
Would you still recommend them? I'm tempted to get in with another KS sensor and swap injectors.
Hell yes - even though the 'orange' ones were a bad batch, they did well and lasted - but when one went TILT they said they would send replacements for all 6 without hesitation, and that is more than you can ask for.
For $130 a 3VZE set with that kind of warranty it is really hard to go wrong in my estimation.
I just ordered a set of the yellow/tan ones? Truck has 24xk miles, on its second engine. Catback exhaust and a S&B intake. Thing is sluggish as crap, no power, can barely pull a 6x10 trailer with light stuff on it.
I will post my feelings on them after they get here next week and I let them run a little. Very excited for the chance for it to have more power.
I've had greys in for 6 months, 3VZE. Running rich, code 26. I just put up with it as it ran well driving wise. Truck just had valve job a week ago. CEL still on, I decided I was going to change them out for Densos as I did not want to "ruin" the $ investment I just put into truck. Then...on 3rd tank CEL went off. Just a few days ago, so I'm thinking bad valves equals bad air/fuel mixture and the ECU won't be able to adjust properly. Something to keep in mind if installing them. Also, probably a red herring, but night before CEL went off I put new air filter in. The old one was by most standards in usable condition still, so I don't think that was a key factor, as I probably put a new one in 6 months or so ago when installing injectors.
1994 4 runner with rebuilt top end of motor (fully rebuilt heads and lightly honed cylinders after motor blew OEM original head-gaskets and previous owner was using non OEM green coolant (Worst thing you can do on a 3vze 4runner!)
Mileage on vehicle: 317,000 kms
Been running the grey top injectors for 6 months now. I will give me feedback and comments on using these injectors from my perspective:
1. Bought the set and didn't install them for 8 months (rebuilt topend of motor) After fitting motor and starting, two injectors were stuck closed. probably due to cleaning fluid dried up inside the injector, so gave them a gentle tap on the metal body while motor was running which freed them up. Ran full tank of gas and bottle of injector cleaner and injectors were great since.
2. I have done a few other mods which i will detail here:
modified exhaust:
This alone has to be the first and biggest improvement you can make on any 4runner with the 3VZE motor!!! Why in god's name Toyota though it was a good idea/an engineering decision/cost saving to dump all the exhaust gas from three cylinders into the other side exhaust manifold is beyond me. This has to be the worst design elements of any motor!!! This creates sooo many issues regardless if you drive this to the corner store only or drive highway miles or drive flat to the floor everywhere!!!
3. Used Toyota super long life coolant - Updating the coolant is 100% must in a 3VZE motor. Use Toyota Red (00272-1LLAC) minimum, DO NOT USE ANYTHING ELSE!! (not really a mod, but a must. I have done this to every 3vze motor I have owned, including several other toyota motors and Nissan motors and run this coolant for 300.000 kms with no cooling/headgasket issues, even with no modifications)
4. Adjusted my AFM - I know there are other threads with this adjustment, but most of those people who adjusted the AFM did it on gut feel and did not have the exhaust modification done either, so the usual 3 clicks lean is probably fine.
I have adjusted my AFM using an AFR meter to achieve MPG, not performance. my AFM was adjusted 6 clicks lean to achieve an MPG combined of 19-20 MPG
Performance is vastly improved also. In comparison, with previous 3VZE 4 runners I have owned, cruising the highway at 100 km/h with the cruise control active, approaching a hill the cruise control would dis-connect the TCC lockup and downshift to try and maintain speed, but could not hold 100 km/h. I can now do the same section of highway in cruise control and the TCC lock is the only thing the transmission needs to maintain cruise speed. Low end torque has increased from 1400 rpm to 2700 rpm, with only 30-40% throttle applied.
So general notes about all my modifications and the injectors:
As the grey top injectors are re-manufactured, they do leak under pressure, so hot starting after 30-40 minutes requires some additional cranking and opening the throttle fully to start the motor is required. I think the yellow injectors which flamethrower is now using are probably a newer, better design. The grey tops also flow more fuel than the standard for the same pressure, so you can definitely get more out of using his injectors by leaning out the system which was already en-riched from factory and wear and tear on the AFM with high miles
As I have an auto trans, I don't rev the motor past 4,000 rpm in general and at WOT (wide open throttle) for two reasons:
1. The motor design - it's designed to produce adequate torque for the weight on a heavy SUV, not for power. I have seen too many 3vze let go on the bottom end (hole in block from big end bearing cap bolt failure, might be that owner maintenance is a contributor, I don't know but the big end bearing cap bolts are not very big!)
2. With the OEM computer map at 3.5k and higher RPM's - above 3,000 rpm up to my personal rev limit of 4,000 rpm, the AFR are in the region of 10.5 to under 9! I have no control over this AFR at these RPM's and I'm sure Toyota took the extreme safety with mapping WOT so it's just wasting copious amounts of gas, it's not making any more useful torque or power and not contributing towards my main goal in my modifications which was economy, not power.
Green coolant. I have seen no documentation that Red Toyota Coolant existed during the 3VZE era. Our manuals call for Ethylene Glycol coolant. No mention of a "Toyota Red" or anything Toyota specific. I would love to be shown some "proof" that the 3VZE was designed with Red Toyota as its intended coolant.
Green coolant. I have seen no documentation that Red Toyota Coolant existed during the 3VZE era. Our manuals call for Ethylene Glycol coolant. No mention of a "Toyota Red" or anything Toyota specific. I would love to be shown some "proof" that the 3VZE was designed with Red Toyota as its intended coolant.
Yeah, I was thinking about commenting the SAME thing. Not only is Toyota coolant more expensive, like you said, the engine wasn't designed for it.
I have used Super long life coolant (toyota pink) in my 1994 as I'm using the latest OEM head gaskets and have a aluminum/plastic radiator tank What everyone should use minimum is toyota long life coolant (toyota red) as the 1988 versions used a brass and soldered radiator tank which the chemistry in the super long life coolant can react with..
The problem with just specifying don't use 'green' coolant is green coolant can be made of god know how many different coolant chemistry types. It's just the dye and there is no standard to color and chemistry makeup of coolants. Toyota have specified since 1966 that Ethylene-glycol coolant should be used in Toyota motors. It was probably dyed green up until the late 80's when Toyota changed the chemistry. It doesn't really matter that Toyota released this model of motor when the OEM coolant was probably dyed green. These are the two versions of OEM coolant that Toyota use in everything and all 3VZE owners should use toyota red (Product code: 00272-1LLAC) at a minimum. being more expensive is really not my problem. If you want to take the risk of the wrong coolant chemically reacting and blowing a head gasket and having to pay for the cost of a top-end re-build (which is what I had to do to this vehicle because of the wrong coolant used by the previous owner) then that's up to you. at $30 for a 1 gallon container of OEM Toyota Red, I don't think that's expensive considering the results.........
Again, if you decide to run with a 'green' Ethylene-glycol that has chemistry different than Toyota Red, it's your risk
I just find it odd that our manuals do not specify a specific type of coolant other than "Ethylene Glycol". There are Toyota part numbers for oil filters, spark plugs, and I'm sure more in the manual. If Toyota required only their green (now red as you speculate) coolant --- why would that not be in the manual? Was there a Toyota Green in the 1980s that everyone was supposed to know about, but not stated in the manual? I just don't get the whole thing.
Welcome nilezy. First of all I like the exhaust mods you did. I would like for you to post some more pics of the rest of that pipe. In another thread perhaps as it is a bit off topic here.
Also off topic, but a response to your post about coolant. It seems thousands of people are running ethylene glycol based coolants with great aiccess, including myself. The color is green. I dont think its right to use such absolute language as so much experience here on the forums shows otherwise.
I've seen many many people, as we all have, talk up red coolant, etc. So, I did not mean to suggest Nilezy is pushing this. I just decided to finally try and figure out where this red coolant good/green coolant bad theory came from. I've in fact read some saying red coolant is bad. I think at ih8mud? And a suggestion that red coolant was designed for the 5vze Tacoma era.
03-26-2015, 01:35 PM
