Dirt Driver

I was sitting here pondering what it would be the limiting factors for building a 500bhp+ 22R-E. I know, it sounds outlandish and honestly, I don't plan on doing it in the immediate future, but I do find it a curious topic of discussion that may reveal information useful to others, so I am asking here. Based on some heavy searching, it appears that no one else has tried to build a high power 22R-E. I found some ambiguous mentions on the 22RET forums that 400bhp would be impossible without ultra-expensive engine management and race fuel, neither of which I fully believe.

So, does anyone know what the big holdups are for doing so? Is it uncharted territory? My guess would be the cylinder head and maybe, maybe the main caps.

What say ye experts?

Lumpy

You so silly...

yoterr

lol well price is a factor too, if you check out LCE their motors are allmost 10 grand for 300 HP, kinda outlandish but if you wish to do so...also thats out of a N/A motor so a supercharged 22RE (centrifigul) or build a turbo motor..and ive never heard of one making that much HP..just my .02

Robert m

iTrader: (2)

honestly no one has done it because its a waste of time and money. there are much better engines out there to build and gain mass amount of power and are also much cheaper to build that can be dropped into the frame rails.

suncomb1

I currently have a 285 HP L.C. Engineering 22R and when I raced my truck I had a 375HP Toyota Factory /TRD prepared 18RG motor that produced 350-375HP. I agree with the above that unless you want to go racing and / or have deep pockets it is a waste of money. If you have the money, considering todays technology, and the vast array of components available today, I believe 400-450HP could be achieved with excellent reliabilty. I am not sure about 500HP +.

Dirt Driver

I guess I need to clarify myself before yet another forum database error screws everything up.....

1.) I though it was a given that a 500hp 22R-E would require forced induction, most likely of the turbocharger variety. It doesn't take $10G to build a good turbo longblock unless there are some critical design obstacles that need cubic dollars to fix. That's partly what I'm inquiring about.

2.) I know there are engine swap options. I didn't ask about them.

Instead of simply saying it's a "waste of money" or "a swap is better," please at least share what major faults you think the 22R-E has that make it so in the context of this thread. Are the mains unstable? Does the head flow like a soda straw? Is the valvetrain unstable? Oiling problems? What?

toylocost

I have one here waiting to go into my lotus project. I was gonna just redo the head gasket and then get it running on mega squirt. Once that is done I will piece together my own turbo/intercooler system. Then just do everything I can think of to add power when I rebuild it. Bore and stroke it (i think there are kits) low compression pistons, oversized valves, port and polish, cam, custom intake manifold. Then throw it on the dyno. I will be ecstatic if I get 300hp.

suncomb1

Any high performance engine costs money and with today's labor costs even more. The 22R series motor is a very rugged motor but to get every horsepower out of it is labor intensive. The bare block should be a seasoned block and totaly blueprinted, decked, oil holes chamfered, "O" ring the block, etc. The engine will have to go to maximum safe bore and stroked with a forged steel crank-polished, balanced, etc. Forged connecting rods, special forged pistons and rings, dry sump oiling system, crank scraper, performance oil pump, performance water pump, water jacket core holes tapped and screw-in plugs, torque plate for reinforcing the block, etc.

20R head with large Chevy valves, head porting-intake exhaust, cc'd and matched combustion chambers, decked, etc. performance camshaft, rocker arms, chamfered / modified oil holes, adjustable cam shaft gear, double chain drive, crankshaft and waterpump pulleys, etc. turbocharger / supercharger system, exhaust header, ignition system, nitous oxide system, fuel injection system, fuel supply system and the list goes on. We are talking well over $10,000.00 to do this actually closer to $15,000 -$18,000. A factory Chevy 350 fastburn crate motor produces 385HP and costs about $4200.00 for another $5,000 - $6,000 you can get 650+ HP plus the thing will last alot longer.

toylocost

Wow thats a good list.

Were not talking about other engines here though and a Chevy is the LAST think we want to put in a yota anyways. haha

turborich

I don't know if you can get 500hp out of it? I kinda doubt it, I do know for a fact that you can build a 22RE & turbo it. I don't know what the HP was but the guy was running 12 second 1/4 mile passes back in the early 90's. I'm sure that today he would have been closer to the 10's with the advancement in technology. This was all done by a young kid just out of high school in his garage. I have told this story before. Today he has one of the worlds fastest street legal Toyota supra's running somewhere in the high 7's / low 8's. Look him up, his name is Dana Westover from Team Virtual Works in Las Vegas. At the time he had the world's fastest Toyota powered pick/up. It can be done if you have the correct contacts & money. Just so you know, this was not a 22RE-T engine. It was a built 22RE with a custom turbo set up & a small shot of NOS, 75 shot I believe.

DupermanDave

why not work on an electric motor swap...think towards the future.

Dirt Driver

I suppose I should have gotten the hint when the very idea wasn't taken seriously.

toylocost

anyone who mentions "swap" again will be hanged. lol

I think people here just arn't into big horsepower. Might have more luck on the Celica forums. They run 22res also. www.celica-gts.com/forums/

olharleyman

You want a 22re that is a hp talk to these guy's PARADISE RACING they are local to me and have many and I mean many 22 re's that are 300-500 hp but be ready to shell out big bucks for a not a daily driver type motor. I talked to them about 150 hp to the rear tires and we were at 5k in a hurry and not a reliable dd motor even told them I wanted a 4x4 4runner motor.

Dirt Driver

Thanks for that link. I looked at their forums and some people don't know what they're talking about, but a few do. I was able to find some mention of mythical nitromethane burning 1100hp drag 22R-Es and 60psi of boost, but it was little more than a mention. Assuming such animals do exist, I would expect the same engine to be capable of maybe half that power on gasoline.

Judging by the boost it takes to make X amount of power, it looks like the head is a big bottleneck. EDIT: according to LC, intake port flow is 130cfm....which is just awful.

DupermanDave

I'm serious about the electric engine though. For what troubles people are going through trying to get the most out of old gas technology, people need to look toward the future and start innovating. The electric motor has a lot of potential. Sure it doesnt sound cool and beasty, but it's a smart technology to invest in.

abecedarian

Interesting side note: a diesel-electric locomotive (generating 4000+ horsepower) can move 1 ton more than 200 miles on one gallon of diesel.

iamsuperbleeder

well, you can fix the sound problem with some loud speakers and the right electronics, and make it sound however you want; 4cyl, V6, V8, V10, supercharged, turbo'ed, jet engined, the Jetsons hover car, the choice would be up to you




On a serious note, I think the FIRST step to producing any sigificant power upgrages, would be opening up the airfolw in the head. An intake and exhaust upgrade is still only going to flow what the head can flow...

I would also venture to say that a stock bottom end could handle a 50-75 shot of N2O

Dirt Driver

Not to derail my own thread, but......

Electric will probably pick up support as batteries get better, but until then....meh. I do recall seeing an electric Datsun drag car that can do 12s: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_179582.html

I won't get into the "clean air" fallacy the owner likes to tout....

The diesel-electric train has the economy of scale on its side. Jumbo jets are also probably one of the most energy efficient people movers.

As far as the 22R-E cylinder head, LC says they can get 260cfm out of that 130cfm stocker. That would be more than adequate for a 500bhp turbo gasser IMO.

abecedarian

You mean this: http://gas2.org/2009/03/25/worlds-fa...a-1972-datsun/ 0-60/3 seconds, 1/4 in 11.5@114?

and for the clean air- energy comes from somewhere, and in an i/c engine- burning fuel... and in an electric vehicle- the power cogen plant burning fuel to power the grid.