psycopanther

can anyone tell me if there is any problems with my timing chain on my 1991 22re 4x4 pickup?? you tube videos here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRthpAwmwE and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9_i3ZHDTbg rebuilt motor with new crank and bearings. fires up fine now, seems to lack power like timing is off. which probably is. anyways, i already get a noise like a knock from a rod in the engine. however, i only seem to here it when i am accelerating. if i step on the gas, it either does not make the noise, or my exhaust leaks covers it up. anyways, this is off my cell phone, so it is a 3g2 file or whatever. the noise seems to disappear when it is revved up more or at least i cant here the tapping. let me know what ya'll think. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5PDBAZEW i went ahead and took off the timing cover but dont seem to be loose enough to do anything, unless the tensioner is not working right.

psycopanther

went ahead and ordered timing kit. but dont think it'll fix problem. any way for sure to isolate if its i rod bearing by chance? rod bearings are constant at and rpm and get louder with more rpm than quieter right?

yayfortrees

I couldn't see it in the video, but make sure both cam chain guides are completely intact. The cam chain guide broke on my motor. I think it had been partially broken for a long time, which would explain the noise I sometimes heard coming from my motor. Then one morning it finally caused actual damage when I got on it too hard because of a REALLY bad start to the day.

The broken guide allowed the cam timing to change enough to hit the exhaust valve on the #2 cylinder. It continued to run, but it was only running on 3 cylinders. Not much power.

Have you performed any compression tests or leak down? Also, if you really think the the timing is off, double check that. If the cam timing is off, you would probably know it, as it would run very rough if it ran at all. If the ignition timing is off, that could let it run, but would be low on power. Let us know what you have found.

You said you rebuilt motor with new crank and bearings. What did you use for rods and bearings? Or are you talking about the small end rod bearings? That might be the best way to isolate that possibility, are they new or old?

psycopanther

i replaced the crank, with new main bearings and also matching rod bearings. i am just worried about it being noise in the bottom end, although honestly it did sound like the noise was knockin on the back of motor. i think more in the top, but really hard to tell noises.

and as far as the timing goes, i thought somewhere i read that on some 22r's you had to set the crank at 5 degrees btc instead of doing it a 0 btc when doing the timing chain. is this correct? right now, the crank is a 0 and the cam is at the 12 o clock position, or actually more at the 11:50. is this correct? power feels more like it is draggin a load, and 50% of the time, if you stop on the gas, it would hesitate big time, like it was dying out and either pick back up and do right or continue to feel like it was draggin bad and i would have to shift to lower gear. it also seemed to do better on the higher end of the power band, like it would just pick up and start going sometimes.

there is no play if you try to pull up on the chain at the cam sprocket. i am really trying to determine if its in the bottom end which worries me the most.
any way for sure to isolate if its a rod bearing by chance? rod bearings are constant at and rpm and get louder with more rpm than quieter right?
would a exhaust leak sound the same and smooth out at higher rpm?

Flash319

That does not sound like a chain problem, sounds like a rod (but hard to tell with crappy sound video). If it is a chain problem make sure that you do not have a long bolt in the wrong spot on the TC cover. The one right in front of the tensioner will bind it since it is a through hole.

If it was the chain it would make noise all the time nut just when revving.

yayfortrees

I was just talking about what happened to my motor. Probably not completely relevant, but I thought that if he was looking at the cam chain and related stuff, to make sure the guides were intact.

I have good reason to believe that the guide was broken on my motor long before the valve hit and I finally had real problems. I occassionally heard a noise under heavy load come from my motor, but never had the money or time to investigate it.

Finally, one morning I revved it pretty good because the lid came off of my insulated mug, spilling coffee all over me and my work clothes. I never came close to floating the valves or anything, but obviously gave that old wore out motor more than it could handle.

I actually had to keep driving it after that happened. I couldn't be late to work that day, so I drove into work, then to a repair shop the next day, then all the way back home. I probably put on 140 miles with it running on only 3 cylinders.

When I tore it down, I found that the valve wasn't obviously bent, but it did have a good sized hole burnt through the margin in one spot. I guess 140 miles could do that to a valve.

Back to panther's problem: He seemed to think that the cam timing is the problem. That should be an easy check by referring to the timing marks. I wouldn't think an exhaust lead could sound the same, but that would vary on the actual leak. I couldn't get the second video to play, is that the one with the sound on it? I will have to watch and listen to that video.

Sorry for the confusion. I really wasn't trying to hijack this thread.

psycopanther

are you referring to the bolt that goes in the center of the cover? i think the oil pump bolt? also, wouldnt bearing make noise all the time regardless of rpm too? when i changed the oil, i also did not see any metal shavings in the oil unless it was so fine, i didnt see it. oh, and yayfortrees, the sound clip is the link on my last paragraph in my Original post. i uploaded it to megaupload, before i thought about doing the youtube stuff. i will say that i for sure have a exhaust leak. at manifold and possibly the donut gasket. just was not sure if it would mimic a rod sound.

yayfortrees

Ok, so I watched the video in your link. IMHO, that could be just an exhaust leak. Since you know that is a problem, go ahead and fix that and then see what you have. If you're certain everything went back together correct, there shouldn't be anything wrong with the rod bearings, right?

Sorry for the previous posts, as they were relevant. I should have watched that video first before posting.

As for your concern with the cam chain tensioner: Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that it is a hydraulic tensioner. When running, the oil pressure should apply the tension, and that is why it can be moved back and forth by hand. I agree with Gnarly, unless you can see any broken or cracked guides, the chain and related parts should be fine.

Let us know what you find after taking care of the exhaust leak(s). Good luck!

Flash319

Ya I think it is one of the top oil pump bolts. The chain guide is very close and so if the wrong bolt is used it will stop the tensioner.
I have never heard an exhaust leak that sounded like an engine problem. It sounds like a loose rod. When there is no load (idle) you won't hear it because of the oil but when you rev the oil gets squished out of the bearing and bang bang bang. Again hard to tell without being there.
Who did the bearings? Did you re-grind the crank? how about the rods?
Your chain system looks fine. A problem in the chain sounds more like a tick then a banging, kind of like loose rockers on a small block.