katmcq

I've spent hours searching and reading these forums till my eyes hurt. Was 95% convinced I had a blown HG, but now I'm not so sure.
I was losing coolant in my DD, seemed to be blowing it out the overflow tank, which the cap never was tight on. (Bought this truck last March.) After I wired the cap on tight, it overheated and blew a hose. So I replaced the hose and radiator cap, and kept adding coolant as needed. (Approx. 1/2 gallon every 75-100 miles or so)
Recently started a noticable ticking-usually when accelerating. Next it started using more coolant, and sometimes blowing white exhaust. Same time, I noticed it's not running as usual, like it's missing. Harder starts, sometimes stalling when coming to a stop after highway drive. Changed the plugs, checked the wires. Then the radiator split at the seam.
I replaced a HG in a 79 20R about 20 years ago, by myself by reading a manual step by step, but I'm by far no mechanic- I just read instructions well.
I expect no pity- these are hard times for most all of us- but I make $9 an hour and have way too many bills right now to do what I'd like to do for my little truck.
Is it possible it's a timing chain prob. and not the HG? And if it is the HG, do I absolutely have to do the timing chain and water pump and all that other stuff? I need this to cost as little as possible, as I'll have to find another means of getting to work and back while truck repairs are in progress. (No way I can do that in a day or two, It'll take me a week or more) I live out in the country- 17 1/2 mile drive one way to work.
After all the threads I've read, I'm more confusd than before! Seems for all it may end up costing- maybe I should baby it along and keep driving it while I save up to buy a rebuilt?
I love my Toy! The last one I had- I put 385K miles on it before it even got tired! My mailman drives his on the mail route every day, and he's 40K short of a million miles. So I really don't want to give up on this one.
Would really appreciate any advice/comments you might have on what to look for, how to diagnose, and where to go for what I'll need. Like I said, I'm a Grandma who hasn't had to do much mechanical stuff (other than brakes- minor tune-ups) for quite a few years. The EFI is all new to me as well.
Please help ! (And no fair ignoring me cuz I'm a girl, either, guys) Can't ask my son-in-law to help,he knows less than I do.
Thanks in advance, this is an awesome site.

Blk63vette

Hello
Sounds like a head gasket Granny. Keep the faith..

habanero

The guys here don't ignore girls, or speak down to them. Welcome to Yotatech.

habanero

The last couple of headgasket fails I've seen involved bubbling overflow tanks, overheating, running poorly, oil on the dipstick that looked like milkshake. Unfortunately, I don't have enough experience to help you out.

hilandfrog

I guess I'll say it matters most how far one is going to go once "inside" the motor.

To have all my major parts, block, crank, rods, head job, lifter rails/set all machined and flattened, a new cam and the rebuild kit....$879.00

Extras like water pumps, clutch, flywheel, hoses, belts, cap plugs and rotor....etc.....$360

injectors mapped and cleaned....$100

Incidentals like parts cleaner, rtv, anti sieze, tap and dies, a bolt/ nut here and there etc..... another $150

No oil or other fluids yet....... Even after all this IF I messed something up, it all needs to come out again and buy some more gaskets repaire the mess up and start over w/ install and fluids.....

IF this were our only car I woud have purchased a "running" used motor and be done w/ it.

As this is was a "winter" project, even thought I just got it Feb/ Mar?, I am having fun replacing and cleaning more than needed.

Finding a GOOD deal on a well running motor MAY be the best bet for a DD......


Whatever the case welcome and enjoy granny:clap

Repo

yayfortrees

x2, does sound a lot like a blown head gasket. However, there's always a possibility of a cracked head, but the odds are it's only the gasket.

habanero is right, your oil will usually look milky with a blown head gasket. (I say usually, but not every time. It just depends on where the HG failed, and how much coolant is able to mix with the oil.)

As far as the timing chain, it really all depends on how many miles your truck has. From what I've read, they're supposed to be replaced every 100,000 miles, or somewhere around there. I think they usually can make it twice that long, but if they are pushed too far and break, it will cost a LOT more in the end.

In my opinion, the timing chain guide is much more important to replace than the chain. (There are 2, but only one is known for failing, the long, straight one. This one is on the opposite side of the tensioner.) My guide completely failed at somewhere around 200K miles, but I think it was partially broken long before that. Even with a completely broken guide, and a burnt valve, the motor (and chain) made it another 130 miles, and got me back home. There is a steel-backed guide that makes a great upgrade. Unfortunately, the timing cover has to come off in order to replace it, adding quite a bit more work when the motor is still in the truck.

Sorry for giving you even more information to sort through and think about, but anything worth doing is worth doing right.

I understand your budget issues, I'm in the same boat. In order to complete the least expensive repair, one needs to make sure he or she is addressing the correct problem, and perform any necessary maintenance to prevent more problems in the future.

In this case, it might be worthwhile for a diagnosis at a shop. It shouldn't run more than $60 - $70, and they will be able to tell you if the head needs to come off or not. (Unfortunately, they more than likely won't be able to tell you if it's the gasket or head. You might not know that for sure until it's removed and inspected.) They might also be able to tell you if there is more work that needs to be done, which could prevent tearing it down with the intention of replacing the HG, and finding out you need a complete rebuild. With the right tools, you could diagnose this yourself, rather than paying a shop. However, those tools will run you a lot more than $60 - $70 if you don't already have them.

If the head does in fact need to be replaced, and your truck has a lot of miles, replacing the timing chain, guide and sprockets is some of the best, cheapest insurance there is. It may cost a little more up front, but can save so much more in the future.

I hope this has helped, and didn't just add to the confusion. Keep us posted on any updates, and if you have any more questions, feel free to ask them. Welcome to yotatech!

Lumpy

I think this is going to be a HG...When mine went it did not milk shake me which was good. You should be able to get the parts you need and swap it out. Ted is great http://engnbldr.com/ prices are excellent.

Probably want a full gasket kit, head bolts, and timing cover (maybe).

92_Toy has quite a thread going with a ton of good info. If you have a few days to read through it. https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...thread-188472/

O and by the way welcome!!!

camo31_10.50

don't believe you HAVE to buy the headbolts...just make sure about every couple thousand miles you check to make sure they are still torqued down up until about 10,000 miles.

camo31_10.50

For what it's worth, my '86 22R is doing the EXACT same thing.

snobdds

A lot of times on the 22RE's many people think the head gasket has failed when in fact it's the timing chain and the guides that failed. The chain then eats through the timing cover and you get the EXACT same symptoms of a failed head gasket. The easyest way to determine if it's the head gasket or the timing chain guides is to take off the valve cover and see if your guides are still there. Just shine a flashlight down the front of the head by the cam sprocket ans see if there there. If there gone or broken, then you know what kind of repair you have to do.

Just don't jump to conclusions to quick, it might not be as bad as it seems

Lumpy

I was assuming the HG because it's not milkshaked...yet. Seems to be getting a ton of pressure in the cooling system though.

shawns88

its best to get new head bolts, i was toldm that they stretch over time.

DoveGray85

My understanding is that if the timing chain wears through the timing cover, you'll instantly get coolant in your oil. But if you're losing coolant out the tail pipe, it's either a blown hg or cracked head.

I'm in the same boat. I have to add coolant every time I drive my truck, and I see white smoke going out the tail pipe at times, still no coolant in the oil yet though.

Irish Death

I just blew my head gasket about a month ago...I did a budget HG job...probably spent about $200. I did not need to replace my timing chain and guides as they looked in GREAT shape...

I had the head pressure checked, cleaned and inspecte for ~$70. I bought Specific Toyota Gaskets (Both Intake, Exhaust, HG ~$60). I replaced all the O-Rings (~$25) on my injectors (Was leaking at the time anyhow) and I fabbed up some egr block-off plates for free. With other misc. costs (Oil, Filter, etc...) came to roughly $200. After talking to my brother (ex-Yota Mechanic, currently a Diesel Mechanic), he advised that if I need the timing chain and guides, the best set he found was the "Heavy Duty" Set from E-bay for ~$40...

The worst part of the job for me was cleaning the top of the block, ~1.5-2 Hours with a cordless drill and a few 3m Brown Roll-Lock discs...

Hadmatt54

For you not to have coolant in your oil (milky oil) a crack in the head would have to be between a water jacket and one of combustion chambers, though not entirely impossible, the cause is more likely to be the head gasket gone between a water jacket and one of the cylinders. On the intake stroke it creates a vacuum and pulls coolant into the cylinder. (coolant loss). On the compression stroke it's pressurizing your coolant system (blown off rad cap & blown rad hose). On the exhaust stroke it's pushing the coolant in the cylinder out the exhaust (white smoke). Coolant is not a very good combustible liquid so your truck is sputtering and not working well plus it's fouling the plug on that cylinder.
You are lucky when you had the rad cap wired on that the rad hose was your weakest link otherwise you might be replacing a radiator too. The rad cap is a pressure relief device... it protects your rad from the high pressures of the combustion cycle in situations like yours. So lesson learned, never wire a rad cap on, it lets off the pressure for a reason.
When you blew the rad hose did you overheat the engine? If so , you may have warped the head and it will need to be resurfaced, if not then a head gasket replacement may do the trick.
The timing chain is definitely stretched and your guides are undoubtly toast, so replacing the head gasket and not replacing these and the tensioner is a lesson in futility. It may buy you a little time, but not much, you will be back in there replacing these items later on.
My girls are in their 30's now and when they were growing up I taught them that there was nothing they couldn't do if they put their mind to it, I think that it is great that you take repairs like this on yourself.
For now this Grampy will wait for your answer to the question that I asked before I suggest what might be your next move.

katmcq

Should have given a little more info maybe...
I got this truck last March, odom. says 183K, but I also was told after the sale that this engine came out of a 4runner. Since the fella is a pretty reliable mechanic, who knows for sure how many miles are on it, or what all he had done to it, or when, before I bought it.
I'm going to try removing the valve cover and having a look with a flashlight on my next day off, Wednesday.
I have never gotten any milkshakey oil, or oily water. I've been pretty faithful on changing the oil every 3K miles, give or take a few hundred. I also haven't had any spark plugs that looked steam-cleaned, or oil-fouled. Just a little pitted at most.
The hottest it got when the hose blew.... well, it pegged almost immediately, and I jumped out, opened the hood and once I got the radiator cap off (steam) I put coolant in and replaced the hose. I try to be prepared and carry extra hoses and belts etc. in my toolbox, so I don't get stranded on these country roads.
The cap I had wired on wasn't the radiator cap, but the cap for the overflow tank. It never would stay on, always got blown open by the force of the coolant coming from the radiator, making a mess. Since then, I haven't bothered wiring it shut anymore, because I keep thinking that either gases are getting in my cooling system and blowing it out (the coolant) or the system needs "burped" which I have done several times, thinking it's good.... then I lose more through the overflow tank again.
Here's an odd one; when I drive to work, 17 1/2 miles, after I shut it off, I hear a little bit of gurgling, but no coolant leaks out. When I drive a short distance, like after work to the grocery store ( 3/4 mile) The coolant sprays out of the radiator into the overflow tank till it overflows and spills a cup or two on the ground. ??????
Thanks again for all your responses..keep em coming, and I will have an update Wednesday.

TheBeast

i had the exact same problem. if there is water in your oil then that will mean your chain guide is messed up. pull off the engine front cover and see if the chain has rubbed on mettle if thats the case replace the front cover and your problem is takin care of. 3 hg to finally figure that out for me

eljefe

There is a test that can be done that looks for exhaust gases in the radiator. It is very simple, but I haven't seen it around in some time. You fill a small container with a chemical that turns colors if exhaust gasses are present. That will tell the tell of the head gasket/head.
My 92 is doing much the same. I know mine is leaking exhaust into the cooling system because I can see the bubbles burping out of the radiator. Plus, there is really no other option that water can be displaced from it's closed system other than ehaust gasses being pumped into it, since no other fluids are being exchanged.
Sometimes if I didn't run the engine too long it would pressurize the colant system, and then when I would shut it off the coolant system would fill my cylinder! That caused a cylinder lock when I tried to start it. At one point I had water comming out of my air cleaner! I also had a very clean spark plug.
I will be tearing mine down this week and I will try and get some pics if that would be helpful.
My Granny used to help me fix my motorcycles and was an all around tough lady when she wanted to be! All my friends though she was the coolest! That may have been because she dipped Copenhagen snuff! I miss Granny! Good luck to you!

92 TOY

Hello and welcome.

with my little problem i had (timing chain broke the guide and cut into the water pump) i replaced alot of the potential culprits for overheating....radiator / hoses / thermostat / water pump.

i searched to find you a video about the tester but it was hard to find one that wasn't selling something...here's what i found

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QA7KVQq9vKA