Rocketwrencher

I called Downey Friday to order up a set of their headers for my sons 3vze. They are completely out!!! Wont have any made for 3-4 weeks. My question is; if I put the engine in with the stock manifolds just to get my sons rig running, how much of a pain in the A$$ is it going to be to remove the manifolds and crossover and install the headers while the engine is in? Here are some pics of the motor basically ready to install. The manifolds and plenum are on just to help me remember where everything went and for the pics.

jason191918

That is a really nice lookin engine. I've heard it's a royal PITA and that you are better off pullin it again. Personally I have never done it so I will let some one else chime in.

Alex 400

look into Northwest off road headers. I heard they are pretty good.

Rocketwrencher

Thanks Jason. One thing I dont plan on doing is pulling it again. If that is the only way, we will just wait for the headers to come in. My one concern is how do you pull the crossover out from behid the engine once you pull the manifolds. Going with the stock manifolds first will give me a good baseline to judge the increase in power from stock to headers on basically a brand new engine. Oh, by the way, it may look fast, but it is completely stock.

Bigblock

I'll damn sure tell you!Leave those headers at Downey!They kill the low RPM torque and the 3.0 can't afford to lose any.But if you are one of those that can't be told anything go ahead and see.BTW if you have a body lift it's easy to put them on.I don't know on a stock vehicle.
Bigblock

Rocketwrencher

The biggest problem is that I live in CA. You know, the bleeding heart liberal state that says our smog has to be cleaner than everybody else's. Anyway, enough of my rant, Downey is the only manufacturer of headers that bothered to get their headers carb approved. NWOR, Doug Thorley, LC Engineering, they all are illegal for street use in CA. #yotys, do you have first hand knowledge of the lack of power in the low rpm range? If so I'd like to hear more before I drop a dime on their system. Any other ideas?

Rocketwrencher

I know there is someone who has installed headers on the 3.0 with the engine installed. I would like to drop it in this week if I am not going to wait for the headers. Anybody?

Elvota

I put them on with the engine in place, but I can't recall if I had the 1" BL in place or not when I did.

I do remember that my main issue was getting all the bolts back in place after the headers were installed. Some of them really require some acrobatic wrenching or very small hands.

Can't really say anything much about power. To me the 3.0 didn't have much before or after the headers. You do alleviate some of the exhaust heat issues on cylinder 6 with headers and that can extend the HG life. I have since swapped in a 3.4 which was a major upgrade... but you don't want to hear that at this point.

If you can wait (or go with another source) I think your install may be easier. However, I will say when I installed headers on my 3.4 I did it before I put the engine in... but then couldn't get the engine to fit. The headers are very close the the frame rails on both the 3.0 and 3.4 motors.

Green93

I had the exact same problem when I got to this stage of my build. I ended up letting it sit on the engine stand for a month or more just waiting. I didn't need any more frustration than I already had.

If you decide to drop it in you can always hook up the engine hoist after and remove the motor mounts. Then you can shift the engine up, or down to assist in the installation. You will have to remove the starter again to get to the header bolts. Also, in my instructions from LCE they say you will most likely have to extract the exhaust manifold studs to get the headers in place. They are much longer than the stock manifolds so there isn't enough clearance to shift them around. I could see where that would be a huge pain and I didn't want to risk breaking a stud off in the head.

As for the crossover, your best bet would be to cut it on each side with a saws all. You'll never need it again.

Jason

Alex 400

I don't understand why the NWOR Headers wouldn't be emissions legal, it has the egr fittings and bungs, I wonder why it isn't legal?

Bigblock

I drove mine for years with the headers.It did help power above 2500 RPM or so but I much prefered the low RPM torque it had before the headers.They do sound cool through the cat and with a 2.5 inch Flowmaster!If anything the headers magnified the under hood heat issue.As far as HG this was an 89 model and never had the HG recall or Hg problems whatsoever.
Bigblock

ozziesironmanoffroad

cali smog laws are stupid. and theyre only getting worse.. in the next couple years theyre bringin down the roadside smog machine, much like a speed gun, so they can find people who are "smogging" illegally. god i hate california laws

Stangmandan

Great looking motor!! I also had to wait for my headers to come in. I think it was about 4-6 weeks for me. I looked for them in the begining of my build so it worked out.
If you are going to spend the money on the headers I would definetley wait on putting the motor in. I just got finish rebuilding a 3vze motor myself and also put in new headers. I had to remove the old exhaust bolts in order to install the new hardware that came with the headers. When doing so I stripped out 3 of the holes and had to helicoil them.
This was alot easier doing it with the motor out.
A friend of mine and myself were able to fit the headers in with the starter on already but with out the motor mounts bolted down to the frame. Wasnt too bad. You will have some clearance issues like fuel and brake lines but that stuff can be moved away and also the transfercase cooler will have to be moved back some. Other than that the bolts are real fun to do. Cant get much of a big turn on some of the bottom bolts but still do-able.
I also had to make a special short wrench to tighten down the smog stuff that bolts on the passenger side. So in short....I think it might just be a BIG pain in your booty to go to headers later on. Still, its up to you.
I personally like going with an after market exhaust over the stock anytime! Just sounds better and runs better I personally think. I've had a couple of cars from a six staight to a couple of V-8's and two four bangers and I thought they all ran better with headers.
Well have fun putting the motor in. Hope my input helped you out.

FredTJ

Just because something comes with holes and bolts doesn't make it emissions legal. You have to certify it and that's expensive and takes time.
It appears that Downey is the only one that's take the time and expense to do that.





Fred

FredTJ

You should be glad that at least someone is trying to look after you and you're kids and their kids.
Having said that, this is s free country. No one has your feet nailed to the floor (do they ?). Don't like it there, I'm sure that you're free to simply move somewhere else.





Fred

FredTJ

Regarding headers for the 3.0, there isn't really any advantage in them to speak of.
You're not going to see any power gains that you'll notice. You may pick up a touch way up high in the RPM range that the engine never really gets to anyway and, as already mentioned, they release a lot of heat into the engine compartment.




Fred

Rocketwrencher

Well, my son decided he is ok with out his rig for another 4-6 weeks, so I guess we will just wait. Thanks for all the input from everybody that chimed in. In the mean time, we will be installing the new cat and muffler as well as detailing the engine compartment to get it ready for the motor. As far as being nailed to the floor here in CA, yea, I guess I am. My wifes family is here, my son is a junior in high school, unemployment rate is at an al time high everywhere and I still have my job at 30+ bucks an hour. Nowhere else can I get that. Believe me, I have looked. If you know of a place that is hiring aerospace mechanics at that rate, let me know.

ozziesironmanoffroad

i know. i would LIKE to move somewhere else, but right now it isnt even thinkable.

Elvota

truckmike26

This is interesting. I've been debating the header swap thing for years now. One thing's for sure, I'm never buying anything more from NWOR. I've had problems with its products and the customer service is hilarious. Don't be fooled by its over-the-top rhetoric and smack-talk as I was. It doesn't even have an e-mail address or link.

I have plenty of low-end and mid-range. I need to feather the throttle leaving stoplights to leave smoothly. In the rain, anymore than half throttle busts the 31s loose. I'd love more top-end for the freeway and snow/mud bogging in low range.

It's the 4.88s (factory on '94 Pickups with auto/31" tires). After driving this truck for 12 years, for bare-minimum performance, 4.88s are manditory for 31s, 5.29s for 33s, 5.71s for 35s and anything larger, engine/axle swaps.