My99

Well, evening 3 now of my 22RE Head Gasket saga and I have finally gotten the head off the block. Last night I was thinking I would have it off, when I found a very mean head bolt in the #5 position. I did a little "tapping" and PB Blaster treatment and went to bed. The only 17mm I had in my collection was a 3/8" 12 sided sucker. I figured there's no point in rounding a bolt head off if you can snap it with the right tool . So I was thrilled today to find my patience paid off. I got my new socket and went to town with my 1/2 breaker bar. However, you can imagine my chagrin when I found that head bolt #8, 2nd from the back on the driver's side, started giving me fits about 1 turn in to the losening process. Not wanting to spend another day "hoping" that the PB would work, I kept working the bolt over. Eventually found that the 18" breaker bar just wasn't enough, so I doubled the length and found the braking point of the head bolt. The rest of the bolts came out like they were put in yesterday.

So, I'm welcoming any advice around how to go about removing this ~3/4" -1" worth of bolt thread out of the block. It looks like I have all of 1/10th to 1/8th of "bolt" above the head to work with.


Interesting to note - the two bolts that look like they've sat outside for the past 3 or 5 years with the pitting and general nasty look to them are the ones that gave me fits. The one furthest back (shortest) is the one that broke off down at the block. Is it normal for the bolts to look like this? Two of the bolts were dry, and the remainder of them had oil on them when I took them out.


With the head removed but headgasket still present. The brown "poo" looking area is where the bolt broke. Coincidence? Actually, from readings taken earlier, this is the most likely area of a headgasket breach. It's really difficult for me to make heads or tails of where the hadgasket was doing its job and where it was not. It was/is a complete mess.


Headgakset removed. As you can see, I have very little to work with sticking up above the surface of the block. If you can't tell where it is, it is located between cylinder 3 and 4 on the exhaust side of the block.


Picture of the valves. Anything look out of the ordinary? Interesting that cylinder 4 valve has a clean spot in the middle.


Close up on Cyl 3&4 valves.

So that's where I'm at so far. I'm going to take the head to the machine shop tomorrow so they can test for cracks/leaks. They will then do a valve job on it and surface it.

I feel I'll have all I can handle with this broken bolt until the head is ready to be picked up.

Until tomorrow....
Kyle

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

Its very normal for those two head bolts to be a major PITA. I have taken many a 22R apart, and those two are always the buggers. Reason being that they are between #1&2, and #3&4 exhaust ports. Thus they get the most heat and they cook pretty good after a few years.

CyMoN

when you take in the head ask the guys at the shop for any pointers on getting out that bolt.

I have used bolt extractors in the past and they do work but if one of those break off in the bolt you are really FUBARD.
they are really hard to drill out.

if you dot buy a set get the kobalt ones the have the lifetime replacement and lowes has replaced both taps and drill bits and bolt extractors no questions asked, just make sure to take the whole set in usually they end up replacing the whole set instead of just the broken one.

TORTIS

iTrader: (1)

i doesn't look like you opened the drain valves on the block for the water.
it is on the drivers side about three inches below cyl. #4. make sure you get as much oil as you can out of the bolt holes.

My99

Thanks for the input guys.

Tortis, You're right, I did not drain the coolant out of the engine yet. I guess I'll just wait until I get it ready to go back together before I do. I'm sure all sorts of things will be falling into those journals until then, so I'll be flushing it anyway.

Fortunately I've gathered some tips from many people, so I'm thinking I'll use a combination of the information. I'll certainly post if/when I get it out. In the mean-time, I'll take all the input i can get.

Thanks,
Kyle

My99

Well I spent the majority of the weekend days & nights cleaning, cleaning, and cleaning. My garage looks like a mechanic's shop, but I'm proud of myself for keeping the mess contained to one side.




The varying size of hammers gives an idea of my moods. Actually, other than breaking that head bolt, I've been pretty pleased with how things have progressed. Advice I'll give anyone about scraping gaskets is to not even bother. A good razor blade (or 5) and some on those 3M scotch pads that go on the end of your drill is where it's at. I spent 3 hours+ working it over by hand with scotch pads and copper brushes yesterday. Couldn't get the gunk off the top of the block though. Got those scotch pads today and I was Superman. Make sure you get about least 5 or so of them. They fill up with crud and become ineffective after a while.



I've gotten the intake manifolds (upper & lower) cleaned up nicely, and the throttle body too. Bling Bling!


Here's the block as it is now. The flash of the camera really brings out the contrast of the old gasket residue. It feels smooth to the touch and looks a lot better with the naked eye, but I guess ~20 years of stick takes it's toll.



Got the head back from the machine shop on Friday. I used Paul's Machine shop in Springdale, AR. I've used him before, years ago. He's quick, reasonable, and kind. Had them pressure test it and do a valve job and put on new seals. They were pretty cool when I told them that I had the valve seals coming from EngineBuilder but that they wouldn't arrive until Monday. I told him what kind of seals I would be receiving and he told me that's what they use there at the shop, and to just bring him my seals when they come in and we'd call it even. If the way it looks is any indication of how well they did on the head, I'm more than satisfied.



The cat was as excited as my fellow yotatechers to check out the nicely cleaned valves.


Went down to the local dealer and got me a few exhaust studs and 10 new nuts. Maybe overkill, but I hate nothing more than an exhaust leak. Wish I had the hook-up like most of you seem to. These guys were about $2.50 each.

And the Intake side:



So tomorrow is D-Day (dreaded head bolt day). I think I'm going to take a propane torch to the head bolt and see how hot I can get it. I'm hoping I can making it glow and thus much hotter than it saw during it's use before. My thought is that it will cause the bolt to expand against the block and create some pressure. Upon contraction, I'm hoping I'm much better off than I was prior, and then proceed to try and use an easy-out. We'll see how that goes. I have been spraying PB-Blaster, and at the recommendation of the machine shop KW "Knockerloose" on and around the bolt. Then I've taken an old worn out 6" 1/2" extention and been beating on the top of the bolt in the hopes that I've been loosening things up down there. Hopefully I'll have a good story to tell tomorrow.

Also, I'm supposed to get both my top end kit and new head bolts from EB tomorrow, along with my injectors that I'd sent off to be flow tested and cleaned. With a LOT of luck I'll have the truck back on the road here later this week.

YotaJunky

It looks like you did a great job keeping your garage floor mess to a minimum. I had what appeared to be an EXXON oil spill under my truck when I did mine. Good luck with the head bolt removal. I don't envy you...

thook

A propane torch won't get the bolt red hot, but it will help. Heat is just a dern plus. I don't know if I told you about mixing ATF and acetone, but I've read a link provided here on YT wherein they compared it to major brand penetrants and it worked much better. Consider it, if you don't get anywhere with what you're using. Although, I've seen that stuff before when I was over at Expert Alignment having the '92 aligned last week. I'd wondered about it. I'd be interested to know how it works for you.

Anyway, all you gotta do is get that sucker to break free and you're in business. Remember....reverse drill bits work really well, too. I've seen restoration sites where the guys yanked broken bolts out of model T's, etc. that were more or less rust welded together. You just have to get the surface flat to work well. But, you know that.

Looks like they did a nice job on the head. And, you did a nice job on the block, etc. Feels good, doesn't it? If you hadn't thought of it, keep a light coat of WD-40 on the deck and in the open cylinders until you get the head back on so no rust has a chance to set.....unless, you actually do get it back on real soon. Also, once you've clean up from drilling and such, put some lube on the open cylinder walls.

I can't think of anything else at the moment. Great job so far, Kyle.

My99

Yeah... I'm worried that the propane won't be quite hot enough as well...

thook

Like I said, though, it won't get red hot, but it might help....a lot. The metal just has to get softer and expand more than it is when cold....which is what is right now. Give it shot, Kyle. Flatten the surface, drill your pilot, heat it up real good, and stick that easy-out to it! Go man, go! Woohoo! (Wish you could see my pom-poms. They're stho sthparkly!)

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

aaaand a new sig line quote!

thook

....I'm honored.

ovrrdrive

Get a small drill bit and drill a pilot hole right through the middle of the head bolt and then come back with another that's about 3/4 the size of the bolt and drill slowly into the bolt until it sticks and screws back down. At this point you'll be able to get some PB Blaster back on it and start working it into the threads. Then just try the drill in reverse and slowly back it up until the bolt sticks again, then screw it back in, and repeat several hundred times. After you get it good and loose it will either come out or at least be ready for an ez out without as much risk of breaking it. If you drill the right hole and loosen it up right you'll be pretty safe with the extractor.

By the way, are you not changing the timing set?

Seems that with as far as you are into the engine it would be a no brainer unless it's pretty fresh...

My99

I didn't mess with the timing chain because the chain and guides are still in good shape. I also see gasket sealer around the timing cover, so I suspect it may have been changed before.

TORTIS

iTrader: (1)

are you changing the fuel filter since you are right there? did they say how much they had to take off the head?

My99

They didn't say how much they took off the head. I was going to change the filter, but I was told by the dealer, who doesn't stock the part, that it's not a maintenence part and if it's not giving me problems, shouldn't feel obligated to change it. So, for $45, I took their advice.

thook

It's true. They don't classify it as a maintenance part, but they do get clogged. If you can blow through it fairly easily, it should be fine.

Any progress for you today, Kyle? Me? I shoveled saw dust for a better part of the afternoon and covered my leaky roof with a tarp. Not an easy feat with a 12in/12in. pitch. Felt like a monkey....

CyMoN

I have found with stuck bolts and nuts if you heat them up with a torch and then quench it with PB blaster it will soak in the PB better.
also when tapping out a bolt. drill it out as close as you can to the size of the bolt hole.
the larger easy outs don't break as easy as the small ones.

3m makes a gasket remover that works real well spray it down come back 20 min later and the gasket will almost wash off.

ovrrdrive

With a milled head you have a major interference engine now. Personally I would have done a new timing chain and a steel backed drivers side rail but that's just me.

You have my permission to laugh at me for saying that when you turn over 300,000 miles after the new head.

thook

They wouldn't have milled it so much that a good functioning tensioner wouldn't make up for, though. Unless, the head was warped?

Besides....not like it's going to make much difference if the timing was thrown off. I bent six valves with factory tolerances!!! Oweee!!!! Lol! Granted....my tensioner was toast. There were grooves eaten into the plastic loader about 3/8" deep allowing enough slack in the chain that the guide broke and the chain began rubbing the two fasteners. I could see it once I got them clean up to reinstall.

Good point, though, ovrrdrive. Forward thinking.

Just keep an ear open for chain rattle, Kyle. Wish there was a way to look at the tensioner without the cover coming off.