'86Owner

First of all, I know these things are not power houses and I have searched but haven't found info on all of this or for my situation. I would love to hear from someone with a similar set up, especially those with weber carbs. I am going to put up the mods that have been done to my engine with the hp gain that I have either heard or a guess, and add it up. Looking for insight, info, discussion. Correct me if I am wrong.

Stock 22r/22re; 96/105hp
Bored over; not sure how much but i think 040, 5-10 hp(guess) does anyone know how much displacement is gained?
Headers; 12-15hp
2 1/4 exhaust with high flow muffler no cat; 5-10hp
A/C unit and vacuum hoses removed(except timing and the ones that clean out the valve cover); 5-10hp
Weber 32/36 carb; 40-50hp when tuned right.(Got this from a weber tech)
Timing advanced as far as it'll go running on regular; maybe 1hp

My engine is a late 22re block converted to 22r with 12,000 mi on it with good compression. So I started with 100hp as a good estimate.
Adding these numbers on the low end I get 168hp. I am running 31's with stock gearing and for a toyota pickup its pretty peppy. I want to upgrade the cam sometime. I want to keep the same low end power and mileage if possible and gain a little get up and go. I heard the DOA 240 cam does that with higher lift and same duration as stock. Anyone have this cam? Any suggestions on cams?

The MAN

I think some people put a 20R head on to raise the compression to get more power..
porting the head and perhaps a custom intake will further increase hp at the cost of low end torque

'86Owner

Ya I've read about that. It'll take some more work to rig it up on a late block though.

toyota4x4907

Quite certain you wouldnt gain 40-50hp with a Weber. If you did, most people with 22rs would be all over those, all the time...
Dont think you gain any with boring. Certainly not a noticeable amount. We're talking 5 HUNDREDTH of an inch.
Headers gaining 12-15? Meh, no.
Coupled with a nice, free-flowing head and larger cam (engbldr, anyone?), perfectly tuned stock or Weber carb, Tri-Y header, 2 1/4" exhaust (2" tail) and free-flow muffler and cat, you will probably see MAYBE 15% increase. ENGBLD suggests a 6-10% drop on increase with his street RV head with one of his three cams.

So you are starting with a 96HP carbed engine, which is relatively new, so we'll say it is putting 95HP at the flywheel. 95x1.15=109.25. So around what an '86-'88 22RE is rated at (108).

Personally, I would convert back to EFI, and do a free-flow head, cam, exhaust.

Is your current exhaust stock/original? If its original, then I would suggest getting a new cat, ASAP. That helps-- TONS!

The MAN

if you're displacement limited, you can always fix that... with boost

'86Owner

No actually you do gain that much with a weber IF its tuned right. Most people when they put it in just slap it on and don't tune right if at all. When I bought my pickup, whoever had put in the carb didn't put it in right or tune it. It was just as or more gutless than stock. I had to floor it in 4th sometimes 3rd before a 3% grade at highway speed just to minimize speed decrease. But once I started tuning I saw an immediate increase in performance.
You have a point with the boring though. It ain't much to talk about. But displacement does gain you power, that's why a 4.0 v6 has more horse than a 3.0. And even a small displacement increase will get you somethin little if the engine is tuned for power (including breathability). And if you run the numbers, on this engine you gain 0.11L boring 040 over. You go from 2366cc to 2471cc. So basically it's a 2.5L.
I heard from two guys one of them an engineer that headers will gain you 12-15hp. And a lot of other guys on here will say it does a bit for ya.
And yes I do have aftermarket exhaust. Headers, 2 1/4 exhaust, high flow muffler, and no catalytic converter at all. And with all that the weber probably gives me power on the high end instead of the low end, so 50hp.

Lol,the MAN, that would do it. But right now...$$$.

'86Owner

Actually those might be the numbers for 080 over. It depends on how you measure it. 040 to each side or overall. Does anyone know how they typically measure it?

Oregon YodaMan

i have the weber and headman exhaust, 2 1/4 pipe, and rv cam with my timing advanced pretty good. there is no f-in way your getting more than 20hp with the weber carb. sure thats what the "weber" guy said but that could also be on a LCE motor fully built. MAYBE! don't listen to everything a company person said. and like toyota4x4907 said, EVERYONE would have a carbed motor instead of EFI, if that was the case. for sure

baddest94

Hey 86owner im with the other guys on the 50 hp thats alot of power. Im no expert on this stuff but i would guess everything you named would maybe add up to 50 or just a lil bit over or under. I have alot of goodies on my truck and i may have added round 65 or 70 to mine. Best way to see how much the carb will add is to go get your truck dynoed then put the carb on tune it and get it dynoed again. Thats just my .02 on the subject and it maybe a worthless .02 at that lol.

'86Owner

^Good points. How much is a dyno?

'86Owner

Ok, found the site I got the weber numbers off of. It was not from weber just a sight that sells them and installs them I think. I had the wrong carb, the weber DCOE sidedraft carb was the one that gave about 40-50hp. So lessen those numbers. The site is www.racetep.com/webjettune.html

baddest94

Dont kno bout a dyno man i live in a small town middle of nowhere i couldnt even tell ya the closets place that mite have 1 lol. Id love to see what im putn out to the rear wheels

Sportsmanphil

NO you dont gain 50 HP with a webber.......OH me... I ran a proshop for GM and LOVED these conversations.

These engines put out 100hp factory fresh. Slapping a webber to an factory engine MIGHT bring you 5-10 HP if tuned correctly..... I dont care how big a carb you install can open, you can only fit but so much SCFM through 4 SMALL valves, and but so much out 4 other SMALL valves.

In addition you are not going to pull 15 hp out of a header, maybe 5 IF you balance it with a better intake.

If you want to increase HP you need a combination of things. Get more air in, get more fuel in, compress it more and get it out faster... That said you can slap all the carbs and headers you want, unless you improve the ability to flow it through the heart of the engine (head) and or compress it more, you arent going to do much but put your wallet on a diet.

What you will do is make the engine louder. Open element intakes give you 1 maybe 2 HP gains but it sounds like you jacked it up 25. A muffler wont add a thing, but it sure will sound like it.

Look at your ideas and do the math.. using an average of your estimates, those simple BOLT ON's double a factory tuned HP rating........not happening.

The MAN

I totally agree... raise the compression, port the head, install bigger valves, a wild cam, and a good intake, it might give you 15-20hp at best... but that's a long shot

it's very hard to get big gains on a naturally aspirated small displacement engine unlike a V8... just look at what the racers (not counting drag racers, because professional drag racers don't run NA 4 cylinders) do to get crazy power out of a NA 4 cylinder engine... to get even 50hp over stock costs tens of thousands of dollars

a 10hp increase is as realistic and "cheap" as you're going to get... if you want to get even 20+hp increase, it will involve significant engine internals modifications that quickly gets expensive

I have seen this dilemma with many people over the years... in the end, there's only two "cheap" solutions:
a bigger engine, or boost


ultimately, the 22R/E is designed for low RPM efficiency.. it is not meant as a high performance motor and to make it so will require lots of money unless you "cheat" by adding a turbo or supercharger... the power restriction is ultimately rests on a poor flowing head and low compression ratio, and the only way to get around that is lots of work at the machine shop

but like the Nissan KA24E engine, it has potential to make lots of power if you throw money at it... a fully built KA24E engine can easily rival its DOHC brother, the KA24DE... but to do so costs much more than just slapping a turbo on calling it a day

Sportsmanphil

The only 4 banger that has my respect in terms of real HP... a sweet tuned DSM. I have seen DSM's dyno out over 500hp on a stock crank and block. Modified blocks/cranks have hit over a grand on the dyno.....Thats 250hp per cyl.......

Youtube "DSM Dyno" You will head out to your garage to punch your Toyota in the jaw.

The MAN

a 4G63 can put out impressive numbers, but I equally respect the 3S-GTE, SR20DET, CA18DET, F20A, BP, etc

'86Owner

Hmmm, food for thought. I'd like to get it dynoed and see what I am getting.

The MAN

getting a baseline never hurts.. that way you know what worked and what didn't

Sportsmanphil

Factory tires and an average running 22RE, somewhere between 70 and 80 at the rear.

87 'runner boosted

also take into consideration....is that 100 hp from the factory bhp or whp?? just wanted you to keep that in mind for when you go to dyno it so youre not disappointed when it shows youre only putting out 85hp at the wheels....