SLO4RNNR

Howdy! I've been stalking for a while, but this is the first time throwin down a post, so please don't flame too hard if I screw something up. I did try to use the Search function as much as possible before posting these questions!

I've got a '92 3VZE (3.0 v6) 4Runner that I bought thinking it was a cherry in and out when I picked it up a couple of months ago. Long story short, I've got crap for compression, especially in #'s 1 & 6 for the obvious reasons. This is the ride I'm really wanting (nothing sentimental - purely from function and form), so I'm going to put in a replacement engine ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rebuilt-3-0-...-/172378642578 ) which is one that was recommended on this site for a few reasons.

Due to time/space/money, I won't be upgrading the engine at this time like I'd ultimately want to, but I do plan on at least taking care of the exhaust manifold design flaw when I swap the engine. I was going to put in headers and weld the Y branch of the exhaust away from where it currently does is, and then install a new system from the cat back.

So, first question is that I haven't seen any pics of where this Y off the headers ultimately ends up, location-wise. Also, is this Y manufactured these days, or is there a part that works instead of making everything from scratch? I can do a pretty decent mig weld; if I have to fab the whole thing, so be it, but I wouldn't mind avoiding that.

I live in California, so the next bit is kind of important: I understand that the O2 sensor location can make a big deal if it's too far from the engine etc, so that's another reason I was hoping to get a pic of where people ended up putting all that.

I'm not doing crazy off-roading or will ever get into the 4k RPM territory, but would like more power than noise - can anyone suggest a good header/pipe size/cat & muffler system? So far, it seems the Mangaflow 18" has gotten the best all around votes, but I'm seeing mixed signals on the headers and nothing much for cats..

Finally, other than the engine mounts, hose lines, and starter, what else would be good to replace while I'm swapping the engine?

Thanks in advance guys!

James

Charchee

What are your future plans for the vehicle? Weekend machine or daily driver? You said you aren't going to ask a lot from it performance wise. If you want to dump some money into it then bite the bullet and upgrade the engine. If you are looking for a low cost option for a secondary vehicle, just go back with the original exhaust design and maybe consider reman heads. The flaw that people talk about is a little overblown in my opinion. This is one of the possible causes of head gasket failure but probably not what got yours since you aren't seeing compression issues on #5. These engines often last for 250k miles without any issues so don't get too carried away with their potential flaws. If you worked around all of them, you'd be $5000 into another 3.0L and still be wanting a 3.4.

Let us know what you're wanting to do with the truck along with your budget and we'll be able to give you a better prescription for your engine repair/replacement.

SLO4RNNR

Yep, we are talking a short-commute daily driver with the occasional run to the ski slopes, light 4x4 on BLM lands to camp grounds a couple of times a year - no plans on rock crawling or towing. I don't plan on doing a lift, either. Even if I do end up buying a new vehicle for all these things later, I still plan on keeping this to play with for a few years.

If rerouting the exhaust Y is more effort than it's really worth, I'd love to not have to deal with it! However, I would like to put in headers and a new exhaust system since that is one of the easier performance upgrades that is a no brainer. Does anyone know what headers would work for keeping the rest of the exhaust near-ish it's current location?

Budget-wise, I'm speculating on roughly $4k on the quality engine replacement ($2600) and the rest on the exhaust, starter and misc parts (mounts, hoses, etc). Labor would be myself, a buddy with a garage & cherry picker, and a case of beer.

Of course, I wouldn't mind a 3.4, and would love a diesel, but the amount of work/needed expertise/vehicle downtime for that isn't in my range at the moment. Also, I wouldn't mind keeping maintenance simple with sticking to the original engine/wiring for easier troubleshooting down the road.

Thanks again for any advice!

Charchee

Headers are still going to leave you with the issue of getting the exhaust back over to the driver's side. You'll want to look into some of the ideas folks have had for solving this. It's going to be quite a bit of trouble for a couple more HP. I mean, its a 3.0. Slow and steady is it's way and it's still going to be that way with or without headers. One idea that I do like, if you are dead set on eliminating the crossover is to take a passenger side exhaust manifold, turning it upside down and mounting it on the driver's side. This will give you two flanges facing the rear and will allow you to route the exhaust from each head separately around the back of the engine. From everything I've read, it will bolt right up and won't cost you much of anything. I may even have one in my spare parts shed.

Just something to look into.

SLO4RNNR

Well, I had read on a thread here dealing with aftermarket choices of mufflers, and I saw a few people reporting about 15-20% gains in mpg's, and a little more power, although there's not much to be expected there for this engine, obviously. Not to mention a nicer exhaust note

Since that thread was several years old, I was wondering if anyone had come across more recent applications/parts that made moving the Y a bit more easy, and perhaps updated reviews on aftermarket exhaust systems out there?

Thanks for offering the spare manifold, Charchee, and for the feedback! I'm almost beginning to wonder if I should just leave the exhaust alone for now and swap it at a later date...

Charchee

Just keep on reading and you'll probably come to the same conclusion that I did. Toyota never did away with the crossover even 15 years after they knew about the potential issues. I believe in Toyota engineering or at least their commitment to quality. I bet they came to the conclusion that changing it up posed more problems than leaving it.

One more thing to think about. The crossover did cause a lot of head gaskets to fail but many of them were older style gaskets. There have been several generations of these gaskets and the best replacement gaskets you can buy now are far and away better than the old ones. If you do buy an engine. Make the builder tell you down to the part number, what gasket set they used. Do a search for gasket sets and look at the differences in prices. Some are ten times more expensive than others. You know it is the engine's weak point so make sure your engine has the best gaskets you can buy, even if it means building you one to your specs and not theirs. In the grand scheme of things, it won't increase the price of your engine by $100-$150.

SLO4RNNR

Right on, man - that's good piece of mind information, and it's greatly appreciated!!

Cheers and Merry Christmas!

space-junk

iTrader: (1)

you cant legally modify the stock crossover in CA. Smog cops will get you. best bet is a set of Doug Thorley headers. they are expensive, but they are also the only CARB approved headers for this motor. And they get rid of the crossover by bringing the exhaust under the trans and they give a HELLACIOUS tone when combined with a Borla ProXS muffler.

For reference, here is a members ride with this setup. Ive heard this thing in person and it is the most amazing sounding exhaust.

SLO4RNNR

SpaceJunk, that may be one of the more important bits of info I could have ever needed - I totally forgot how particular CA is with specific exhaust part numbers!

I ran into that when I changed the cat on my Integra. I got the right one, but I thought my brother was joking when he said the referee would actually look at the part number on the cat to match it up, instead of just looking at what the results of the smog were.

I think I now know what exhaust system to get The tone in that video you posted was friggin amazing! I think I'll get that install done after the engine is swapped.

Thanks for the suggestion!!

space-junk

iTrader: (1)

No worries! When I went to smog my tacoma for the last time before I sold it, the smog tech actually refused to do it because he couldn't see the numbers on the cat. he thought I was trying to use an obd1 cat. smh. had to run down to the exhaust shop around the corner and borrow a wire brush so I could get all the clay and mud build up off of it.

smog cops suck!

also, keep in mind that this guy actually had a test pipe installed so he could hang his cat on the wall and swap it out for smog days. he drove it this way for a few years without a single issue. but it do sound a little different with the cat in. YMMV.

Charchee

Man it blows me away the kind of stuff you guys is CA have to deal with in regard to emissions. We don't even have to have safety inspections in Arkansas so the engine bay in my 4Runner doesn't have much in it, other than an engine. I may be way off but I wouldn't think a smog inspector wouldn't be a really high paying or sought after occupation. Low level government employees around here don't do anything but act rude and try to avoid work at all cost. So in saying that, are they really knowledgeable enough to look under the hood of 100 different models multiplied by thirty year models since smog regulations started and see that you have made an inconspicuous modification? From reading a thousand posts about it, it seems they are pretty good at it.

I can't believe that guy bade you go clean your exhaust so he could find the number. If someone from the government around here told me to clean the underside of MY truck or else he wouldn't ALLOW me to drive MY truck, I can't imagine what I'd do.

space-junk

iTrader: (1)

They actually have a very high tech and comprehensive computer library of all of the C.A.R.B (California Air Resources Board) approved parts as well as the computers and emissions motoring equipment being linked straight through to the DMV. Being linked to he DMV means it's linked to the CHP (state troopers).

We get no breaks here. Hell, they even started making us smog diesels.

Anyways, yes, the smog techs are state certified, but if they are caught doing ANYTHING wrong they lose their license and are fined thousands of dollars. it's not worth it for them to cut corners. especially when every smog they do can net the 60 bucks. And they have the option to charge for re tests too.

It's a big money business here in CA all designed to line the pockets of the companies who produce the smog dynos and computer systems under the guise of "clean air".

Sorry, that went a bit long. I can't wait to move to idaho. I'm so done with commiefornia.
/rant

Charchee

Ahh, they are contractors and not state employees. I bet that computer has a nice picture of the engines and exhaust with arrows pointing to what to look for.

So the clean car/clean diesel technology folks lobby the CARB. Inspectors unions back them up. CARB influences the EPA. Boxer and Feinstein make it all legal, 300 million Americans get to deal with regulations they hate so a few smart get rich in the name of saving the planet.

Got it. Love the way diesel exhaust fluid burns my skin and keeps my trucks in the shop half of the time though.

scope103

Arkansas has its wonders, but I DO like living in California. And while I didn't move here until the late '70s, I still remember the condition of the air in Los Angeles around then. Bad. Really Bad. It was the work of CARB (and others) that can be credited with an amazing transformation.

As space-junk points out, smog checks are done with computerized, inter-linked machines that really do know everything about every year and model they see. Would it be POSSIBLE to use expert metal-working skills to add a counterfeit CARB number to a non-complying catalytic converter? Probably, but to what end? To keep some shoot-box on the road for another two years and save $100?

Don't forget, we're all breathing the same air. If getting a smog check every two years is too much for you, well, Idaho can have ya.

space-junk

iTrader: (1)

It's not that I don't appreciate what CARB does or has done. I believe the intention and idea is good. but like anything else with government oversight, it has been corrupted and twisted into what it is now. when a government body requires thousands of dollars of products to be "tested" then destroyed just to get carb certification, that is ridiculous. take a simple intake, for example. a 3" aluminum tube with 2 tube fittings and a base welded on for a MAF sensor. simple and cheap. maybe 60 bucks. but because the companies that produce them have to go through such expensive and unneeded testing, we pay 250 for it.

let me restate that. I have to pay 250 for an intake for my mazda because it has a number plate that says it's ok to run. it is not physically different than the $60 one I can get on ebay, except that if I get caught with the eBay one, I get a ticket. a $30 fix it ticket. and cops around my area LOVE to pop hoods on imports. trucks too. they'll pull you over for no mud flaps and cite you for having a non carb approved header.

you can't tell me that isn't utter BS. completely wasteful and costs consumers extra just for the privlage of living in this state.