yodamomma

Hi all you tech heads...

I have a 94 3.0vze, automatic tranny, w/ 275,000 mi. I had the head gasket replaced at 225,000. It has not been running uphill well, took it to the mechanics, found out i have a dead cylinder (can't remember which one). Other than that the car runs.

I'm torn between selling it and getting a new to me car, or replacing the engine.

I can't do the wrenching myself, so I will have to contract it out. I need 4wd where I live, i liked driving the car, but wondered what y'all thought about it...save the sucker, or turn her over?

And if I save the sucker, what can i do to it to keep it from doing stupid things like blowing headgaskets or burning cylinders?...I've read that putting headers on it will keep this from happening. Is it true? Cause I can't keep throwing money to the tune of a few thousand every so often

thanks in advance

sechott

If the body and frame is in good shape with no rust. You might be able to sell or part it for more than you think even without a good engine. If you don't have the means to do the work yourself this might be your best option. Throwing a lot of money into the 3vze isn't wise, unless you can spare the cost by DIY.

skypilot

iTrader: (1)

X2

If you cannot do the work yourself sell it as is to someone who can. there are plenty of engine reman's around but the engine is just a poor choice to save. All depends on the frame ,body, & finanacial considerations, if putting in a replacement engine is appropriate.

yodamomma

Thanks for the input. It's difficult because I really love the car; when i worked census it saved my life in the back country....installing a rebuilt engine is gonna run about $2500, which is still cheaper than a new car. (sans headers). Body and frame is in decent shape, but it has the whack green paint job common to that time. couple small dings, and truly minor rust on the front hood from dings on the road. I inquired into conversion, but my local guy says he just doesn't like running it with two computers...(i missed that in the thread...I'll have to look it up.)

leaning towards selling it. hope i can afford something with a 3.4.

Elton

id sell it ive seen so many 3rd gen 4runners there on cl nice ones too for under 5k

DetroitStyle

iTrader: (1)

:werd: I've been looking out west for a 4Runner to bring home. $5,000 gets a REALLY nice truck these days.

skypilot

iTrader: (1)

Conversions cost $$$. All I'm thinking of is a simple reman like for like so no computer gymnastics required. I'm hoping its just valve lash so you get out cheap.

etc.

How about getting a second opinion???????

yodamomma

Hey Skypilot...

just a valve lash? forgive my ignorance...would this cause a cylinder to have a compression of 30?

that would be cheaper than a new engine, i think...which is what I'm looking at, when I look at what's in my wallet, and the problems with buying a newer car for more money than that...

I'll check in with my mech. in Legget....maybe I'll get lucky with a second opinion.

norcal98

iTrader: (3)

I think what hes saying is maybe the valve is just out of adjustment causing it to have low compression. That would be the cheap fix compared to a new motor, but you have to be lucky as stated (Im way to Irish for that to happen, tried twice).

Just a wild guess, but more then likely you burnt a valve. Your comment makes me think you've never had them adjusted. I'm guessing as you didnt say which one actually had low compression, but if I had to guess and given the miles you have on the motor, Id bet it's the number six hole. That one tends to be the one to go, tolerance gets tight faster. Ive lost two to that.

Up to you if you want to pay someone to check the valves. I guess its worth a shot, but I think long shot. I also wouldnt spend 2500 on a new motor. Better off either getting a new vehicle, or finding a used motor on the cheap to drop in. Could possibly do a leak down test and find what the real problem is. Once that tells you the issue (ie valve), you could do a top end, that would be less money then a new motor, but that still might be chasing good money after bad because the rest of the motor (bottom end) still has all the miles and you'll be upset when a ring goes later down the road.

Just tossing options, you'll have to make your own call.

yodamomma

Hey Norcal,

generally, afik, valves should be adjusted every 50k? which is about where I am after that head gasket...i guess i assumed they did it then, and it was in for it's major tune up when the 'hole' in the engine compression was discovered. My other ride is an 87 toyo 22r, I've got 404,000 on the original engine, so i DO try to take care of my rides :-)... I'm just too feeble to do the damn wrenching any more!

If i spend 5k for a 'new' car, my kid's college fund is wiped out, i would really love a new car...but I'm thinking this might not be the time...dunno.

2500 includes installation, and the engine would have o miles, and I'd at least know the maintenance was done....and I've got that in the bank.

new to me is used with someone else's problems, and still might need money...which i won't have.

it's a conundrum, fer sure. Think a reman engine would last for 5 years? or is the 3vz just crapola?

don't mean to flog that dead horse, I'm just kinda stymied, and broke.

norcal98

iTrader: (3)

People just tend to over look the importance of adjusting valves on this motor in my opinion. I hear guys say all the time they've gone two hundred and whatever miles without adjusting them, and all I can think is they arent going to go very many more.

If your doing your valves every 50k then more power to you and thats quite often, more then I do. You really pay to have it done that much? Sounds expensive.

All that aside, I certainly wouldnt assume they adjusted them on the head gasket. That would be the smart thing to do while youre in there, but people get paid by the job. If they didnt get paid for it, then they are not going to do it. Just another guess on human nature so unless they told you they did....... not feeling confident. However according to what you said above, you had it done 50k earlier then the head gasket. Around 175?

275,000 is a decent average run for this motor. Bottom line, its prolly the worst motor toyota put out. Slow, not the easiest to work on, etc. Having said that, its still a toy and when taken care of, no reason they dont go 300k and above. Not a alot motors can do that so I dont know if I would call it crapola, rather just not as good as the others or the best choice if you have to spend a large amount of money. I have two and am installing a used motor tmrw weather permitting. Im doing the work myself so its worth it for me to only have a few hundred bucks in it and be able to get another 100 to 150k miles out if it.

2500 just seems like a lot, but yes I think you would get 5 years out if it with average driving mileage and you would know what you have.

Your going to fail smog with high HC's the way it is. I say drive with the crappy gas mileage your prolly getting so you have something to use. In the mean time-before its time to smog and you cant drive it- save your pennies and be on the look out for something else cheap. Then when you find the right vehicle, use the 2500, whatever else you saved, and the money from the current 4runner you got for selling it as a parts car (wrecker or whatever) and get something else. Thats what I would do if I wasnt going to do the work myself.

That or what I mentioned earlier. Leak down and gamble on a used head from CL or wrecker if its a valve-if you want to go cheap. Might find one for a 100 bucks or so, but still a risk.

What do you mean "hole" in the compression?

yodamomma

hey norcal

I bought the 3.0 runner from a guy who SAID it was a rebuilt engine with 25K on it....i didn't have it tested, one week later the headgasket had to be replaced...so i guess he saw me coming, and i didn't do much research, 'cause i thought 'toyota, how bad could it be?'

Right now the car drives, it's not smoking, and where i live i don't have to get it smogged (lucky me). Gas mileage truly truly sucks.
I wonder if i can drive it for a few months? Guess I'll find out..

I prefer my little 22r...it's easier to see all the parts. I'd love me a 5 speed 3rd gen runner, but even a rav 4 might work around here. Either way, more money than i have...and I"m thinking if it's gonna cost me $1k to drop i a used moter, well, reman might make for more sense, and more resale value...but I'll research used...

the mechanic told me there's a hole in the engine...and then he showed me the compression readings. He didn't write down which cylinder, I just freaked when i saw 130 all around and then 30. He meant figuratively in the power train, i think.

astrologically speaking, mars is retrograde, so it's not a good time to buy a car. If i think this one will hold out til April, maybe Ill do that and then look for used.

crap, i forgot i have jury duty in the am...nitey nite

skypilot

iTrader: (1)

Lord above I know that feeling. Any chance a mechanically inclined teenager can run the valve lash for that hole while you supervise?
I have two kids in college, and money's tight nothings free.

A reman engine would have a warranty of xx,xxx miles. the 3.slo is not a great engine but they do run and have done well enough for your needs. I figure a reman is the best way to go since there is nothing that requires invention or fabrication. While another 3.slo is simply a lost cause to most of us, it would not be to you. remember these engines were installed in a LOT of trucks and did yeoman service for their owners. You need the crankshaft to turn reliably everyday and 3.slo from a reputable firm will do that job for five years. What I would do is run a separate exhaust pipe from the right bank down under and meet up with the left bank under the transmission & block off the left bank hole at the end so the #6 hole doesn't run hot. That would be the only "custom" work I would do. So what it hangs down a little, it helps you get to the five year mark.

You did better than me! My 22re died violently at 334,800.

Flogging a dead horse sometimes helps the pain.

norcal98

iTrader: (3)

If you dont have to smog it, that will buy you some time. You can run it the way it is for months, although it will create other issues as there will be a lot of unburnt fuel in the system and mileage will suck as stated.

Guess we need to define the way youre using "hole". I used it earlier as slang for a cylinder (ie dead cylinder=dead hole) and Pilot just used it the same way. Your comment above suggests and actual "hole" somewhere? Like in the block or in a piston? Thats a different problem, but I guess the result will be the same as it seems you really want the reman engine.

This horse is wore out so I'll do my 2 cents again and most seem to be giving the same advice.

-Call the mech. ask him if there was a literal hole in the block or something, or if he was using the term as slang to refer to a cylinder.
-if no literal hole in block or piston (which I doubt because you have a little compression), ask him which cylinder has low compression.
-check the valve lash on on it and adjust the shim so its in spec. If youre lucky its fixed.
-If not, in your situation, run that turd till you decide on a reman or to sell it for parts and buy something else.

Far as your resale statement, I dont think that should matter much in your decsion. Reason is, I see these things (89-95 4runners) for sale all the time for around 3,000 on CL. You'll have almost that much in the reman so I doubt you'll get your money out of it when you sell it a price that brings a buyer. Frankly, if your doing a reman, your doing it to know what you have in it. In that case, you'll run that thing till gives up again and resale on that is same as you have now (may have to do a tranny in the process). Most people dont believe somebody when they say its be rebuilt anyway and whose to know the quality of the rebuild or mech that worked on it even with paper work.

Not sure on Mars, but good luck with that. Gotta go put my own 3.slow in a 93 4runner.

yodamomma

You're very kind...as i am a little slow, can you expand upon that exhaust bank thing? got a picture? or a link to one? I'm not sure what you mean about block off the left bank hole at the end... i remember from the board that because the exhaust runs too close to the engine, it's one reason the cylinder goes. Doesn't it need exhaust tho?

skypilot

iTrader: (1)

The big problem with the 3.slo is the right bank exhaust goes into the left bank exhaust manifold and then out, causing #6 to fail prematurely. If you put a block off plate on the left side manifold where it is open for the right side manifold. And instead run the a custom bent exhaust pipe down from the right side and across right to left and meet the left side exhaust pipe in front of the O2 sensor. Drill a hole 1.5" and weld the right side pipe to it over the hole. Chevrolet did this on all their pickups, but some some reason Toyota wanted to use the same down pipe as the 22RE (one less part I guess). My 1990 Chevy Scottsdale pickup has a pipe just like this.

That is the only "custom" thing I would do to it. That way the biggest cause of head gasket and valve failure on the 3VZE engine is eliminated.

#6 just gets stuck dealing with the HEAT of all 6 cylinders and it fails because they did not do what Chevy did for the exhaust pipe.

"G"

Does anyone have a diagram of this exhaust pipe mod? I'm having a hard time picturing it.

yodamomma

talked to my local mech who swore that the dead cylinder thing was caused by a defect in the head, and if you took the left head off, and then got a right side head and turned it around and put it over the left side that the problem would be gone. Anyone else hear of this fix?

skypilot

iTrader: (1)

Wow; They are not reversible to my knowledge, and the head gaskets do have a left & a right side. Reversing them causes severe cooling problems.
That sounds so ignorant of general engine knowledge I don't know what to say.