Liveforocks

I have done all that I can to flush my cooling system with a prestone flush kit and a air compressor. Is there anything a shop can do that would do any better to flush the water jackets? I have replaced every bolt on item in the system

aa1911

iTrader: (1)

the solution to pollution is dilution; I usually go through at least 3 rinses after I use the prestone super flush stuff which is WAY more than most shops will do from what I hear.

JJ'89

Not trying to discourage you, but you might consider this opinion...

http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/Radiator_Flushing.htm

Liveforocks

I am just still trying to cure my heating up problem on my truck and the only thing I can think of would be a plugged water jacket.

cgeorge

Just did mine this weekend. I used the Prestone and ended up finding my radiator to be a mess. I removed the hoses, radiator and thermostat as they all are going to be replaced. With all of that out, you can really flush everything really well - including the heater core.

Here is a taste of the yummy mess that came out of my system on the second flush!

Matt90V6SR5

Thanks for the link JJ,I wont be wasting money on a flush now.I will do the drain and refill method instead.

Matt90V6SR5

Thats disgusting cgeorge,why were you running chocolate milk in your cooling system instead of antifreeze?

cgeorge

nope.. that is rust... and other nasty stuff.

sb5walker

Actually, Prestone Super Flush will not remove much of anything - it's one of the mildest, least effective flushing agents. Its sole ingredient appears to be sodium citrate (at about 10% - the rest being water), which is a food additive and alkalyzing agent. (I still wouldn't drink the stuff, lol) It will neutralize acid and perhaps take a small amount of rust into solution. It won't do anything for oil, gunk or scale, and won't remove much of the rust, either. It is safe for the vehicle and will neutralize any existing acid, it just won't "flush" anything. You may as well drop an Alka-Seltzer tablet into your radiator - it's probably the same thing.

http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/m...or%20Flush.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_citrate
http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Sodi...ydrate-9927264

Gunk Super Radiator Flush, on the other hand, is a serious flushing agent. It should only be used if you have serious scale, gunk, oil or rust in your coolant loop, as it will really remove stuff, including the thin protective layer on the metal surfaces that protect block and head from corrosion. (But if your coolant is rusty, those protective surfaces are long gone anyway.)

http://web.archive.org/web/200610310...msds/C2124.PDF
http://web.archive.org/web/201012231...info/C2124.PDF

The ingredients of the Gunk product are:

2-Butoxyethanol 1-5% - A solvent/degreaser - will remove grease & oil
Citric Acid 10-30% - The safest effective remover of rust and corrosion and scale - if Gunk is unavailable, always try to choose a flushing agent that is based on citric acid.
Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid 1-5% - A surfactant (wetting agent) - a primary ingredient in detergents
EDTA 7-13% - Chelating agent - dissolves scale and holds it in solution.
N-Methyl-2-pyrrolidone 1-5% - Solvent/degreaser, often used as a paint remover, it's especially effective at dissolving polymers/gums/gunk
Potassium hydroxide 1-5% - Raises pH and also dissolves oxides.

The methyl pyrrolidone, dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid and butoxyethanol are toxic, so don't get them on your skin, nor on your paint, or anything else you don't want to corrode. Use as directed and follow the cautions on the bottle.

Be sure to flush the system well with hose and/or distilled water after flushing with Gunk. You might even consider using the Prestone product after using Gunk, as it will neutralize any remaining acid. Rinse the system after that one, too.

Because a real flushing agent will leave metal surfaces bare and prone to oxidation, only flush & rinse immediately before you refill with at least a 50% concentration of a good antifreeze, so the corrosion inhibitors can begin to reestablish the protective layer.

But if you don't have rust, scale or gunk in there, you are much better off just using hose and distilled water to flush your system - much safer and nothing more is needed.

EDIT: It appears Gunk has stopped selling their radiator flush. I updated the MSDS and Datasheet links above with copies from the Internet Archive. I see that (at the moment) a vendor on Amazon still has some for sale. But when those are gone, you may need to try to find another brand with similar ingredients, if you can. BTW GUNK's old datasheet lists common names for the ingredients that are different from those listed above, but they are the same ingredients, just with different names:http://www.amazon.com/C2124-Super-He...dp/B00200SBAY/

Hot diggety! Just found the old original GUNK formula, with the same ingredients in apparently the same proportions, is sold by Permatex as "Permatex Heavy Duty Aluminum Radiator Flush" or "Permatex 80032 Aluminum Radiator Flush":
http://www.permatex.com/documents/td...tive/80032.pdf
http://www.permatex.com/documents/ms...lish/80032.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-80032...dp/B0023GM2UK/

Maybe the GUNK product was made by Permatex all along, but if so, I never noticed.

Note that Permatex also sells a product called "Permatex 80030 Heavy Duty Radiator Cleaner" that contains strong and corrosive hydrochloric acid. NOT recommended unless you're really desperate, since the strong acid can eat through thin spots in the radiator or heater cores and cause serious leaks.

Matt90V6SR5

My coolant looks clean and also weak,PO put a new radiator in it.So I think the system was cleaned at some point.Looks like 19 years of buildup cgeorge.

JJ'89

Mucho thanks for the info re Gunk flush, I never had any luck w/Prestone flush either. Check this out because the particles dislodged gotta go somewhere, maybe better not through the radiator...http://www.jag-lovers.org/xj-s/book/CoolantFilters.html

sb5walker

When you see rust in the coolant like that, it's not "build-up" per se, but rather the result of rusting of the block that happens when coolant turns acidic. And it can happen quickly, even in less than a year in some cases.

When ethylene glycol breaks down due to heat, it gives off acids, and neutralizing those is the primary purpose of the corrosion protection additives in antifreeze. In conventional antifreeze like Toyota Red & Prestone Green, those agents wear out in about 30k miles/2 years. They will wear out much sooner if something else depletes them, like mixing with tap water or with another coolant type.

When the buffering agents are all used up, the coolant becomes acidic, and that can lead very quickly to rusting of the block and head gasket sealing rings, as well as corrosion of the aluminum head(s) and brass/copper/lead radiator and heater core. You see the result of that corrosion as rusty coolant.

You can avoid that nastiness by changing coolant every 2 years/30k miles, using only distilled water and never mixing with a different coolant type. If you don't know when coolant was last changed, or whether tap water was used, testing the pH will at least let you see if it's acidic. (It won't tell you how much more service life remains.) This thread has some more info on that:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...nt-faq-192781/

DupermanDave

This may be highly frowned upon, but I don't see why this won't work. Why not try a diet soda with phosphoric acid? This stuff will remove rust and neutralize corrosion. Should be fine on the rubber hoses and gaskets, and since it's diet it won't get sticky and gunk up anything.

Cal01

RMI-25 is my option too...still deciding

sb5walker

I would never, ever use a coolant additive with Toyota Red. It's chemistry is totally different from all other coolant types except for some of the other japanese carmakers' older oem coolants, and nine times out of ten there will be a harmful reaction between phosphate-based Toyota Red and the additive. Plus, there is absolutely no reason to do so - Toyota Red is an excellent coolant with excellent corrosion protection.

Cal01

the reason was that there was brown gunk in the radiator. not sure if it even had toyota red in it. I will be using Toyota Red after a flush though.

MaK92-4RnR

Bumping an old/informative thread.

I had chocolate milk come out of my original radiator as well... same color as the above picture! what kind of solution or flush unit would I use? is that Gunk stuff too powerful for what i'd need?

sb5walker

Based on the experience I had with my veezy when I let the coolant get rusty like that, almost nothing will clean out the rust from the block. I mean seriously, it took years before the block was mostly clear. So no, I don't think the Gunk Super Radiator Flush will be too strong. It will help, certainly, and better than probably anything else, but you'll also need to flush and flush and flush with lots of water.

I'd remove the thermostat and either leave the lower hose off or attach it to the block only and direct the other end into a drain. Pull the top radiator hose from the radiator and do your best to join/seal it to a garden hose. Move the heater control all the way to hot and then turn the hose on to medium flow, not full blast. That will backflush the block & heater core. Be prepared for a LOT of really gross junk to come out of the thermostat housing. It will take a LONG time before the water turns clear (but the block will still be rusty).

You'll also need to flush the radiator. If there is not any visible debris in the top of the radiator, you can attach the garden hose to the upper hose inlet and allow it to drain out of the lower hose outlet. If there is debris, flush it as above and then remove the radiator and backflush it upside down.

After you've got the block, heater core and radiator as clear as possible, be aware that the block will still be very rusty. I would reattach the hoses without the thermostat, add the Gunk flushing agent, and fill the radiator with water (tap water is fine). Then run the motor according to the directions on the GUNK bottle, adding water to the radiator as needed. Don't leave the flushing agent in for more time than recommended, certainly not overnight. Then flush really really well with water. Or, as mentioned above, you could then flush with the Prestone Super Flush which will neutralize the citric acid from the Gunk product. Then flush that out with plenty of water.

Make your last flush with distilled water since you don't want to mix tap water with antifreeze and fluid always remains in the heater core and in pockets in the block. Make sure the t-stat is not installed for that step either.

Then drain the system as best as possible, install a new Toyota thermostat (with jiggle valve positioned at top on the 3vze) and fill with a 50/50 mix of distilled water & Toyota Red antifreeze. The primary corrosion inhibitor in Toyota Red is sodium benzoate which is a fantastic rust inhibitor. Even so, your coolant will probably be totally rusty again before too long because it takes time to get the existing rust out of there. But Toyota Red does way better than Prestone Green which will be totally rusty again in a month and which will never clear the block of rust.

To fill the block on a 3vze, elevate the front of the vehicle so the top of the rad is higher than the truck dashboard. That will allow most of the air to come out of the heater core. Remember the thermostat will prevent coolant from going from the radiator into the block, so attach lower hose only, pour half your antifreeze into the radiator and then fill to top of core with distilled water. (If you fill too much it will come out where the upper hose attaches - ask me how I know - doh!) See this post for antifreeze quantities. Then attach the upper hose to the block only and pour the rest of the antifreeze and distilled water into the radiator end of the hose to fill the block. Attach upper hose to radiator, top it off, and, with front of the vehicle still elevated, continue to top off radiator as you run the motor to circulate the coolant. (It won't actually circulate until t-stat opens.)

On the 22re, fill the radiator while the thermostat and t-stat housing are off and vehicle is level, then when you see the coolant come up to the level of the t-stat housing, install t-stat (with new o-ring) and housing, elevate the front of the vehicle and fill the rest of the radiator, topping it off the same as with the 3VZE. See this post for antifreeze quantities.

I just replaced my water pump today, in fact, and after several years of using only Toyota Red I can very happily report that there is no longer any sign of rust in my block. It looks nice and clean. Good stuff.

trktwo

tagged good info