BeerRunner

Hey yota techers,

I picked up an 88 4runner last week with what I thought was a blown headgasket. There was no coolant in oil, compression was mid 150s throughout (although I did not measure with Throttle Wide Open), no bubbles in the coolant, but it was steaming and sputtering water out the exhaust.

I finally pulled the head last night and found that all 4 cylinders were full of coolant, the weird thing is the head gasket did not look obviously blown. I know they can be leaky without blowing all the way but with coolant in all cylinders I would expect to see more damage to it.

Could the leak be coming from the intake manifold?

Any other Ideas?

Sorry if im missing something obvious, this is the first time I have worked on a car beyond an oil change. I did try searching.

Thanks guys! cant wait to get her out on the trails

BeerRunner

Heres a picture of the HG on the block.
On the up side the timing chain looks to be in good shape. even the plastic guides look new

j2the-e

Are you sure you didn't just spill coolant when you pulled the head off? If water was being burned, most likely the pistons would be carbon-free

BeerRunner

That is very possible. and there was carbon deposit in all cylinders, but then where would the white smoke and water out of the exhaust be coming from? the engine also has an intermittent miss.

j2the-e

Water can be normal. Condensation. WHITE smoke is typically coolant. It's usually obvious where the leak is. That cylinder will be clean clean clean. How much white smoke? Are you losing coolant? You sure its white smoke and not blue smoke(oil)?
Best bet at this point: Send the head to a good machine shop for inspection and valve job. Those engines burn exhaust valves so fix it now while its apart. Put it back together and cross your fingers....

Gamefreakgc

Well, seeing you removed the head you have to change the head gasket anyway. You can't reuse it or it will definitely leak this time.

Do what j2the-e suggested and have the head inspected and resurfaced. Do a valve job if you think it needs it, if the valves look real grimy and have a lot of carbon buildup.

If you think it's burning oil and not coolant, then your piston rings might be on their way out... but hard to say. Could also be the valve seals leaking or something. Also, water is normal for the first few minutes of operation. The catalytic converter converts most exhaust gases from Hydro carbons and other harmful gases into Carbon dioxide, H2O, and Nitrogen so you'll get water droplets/mist coming out.

BeerRunner

thanks for the replies J E and Gamefreak, I really appreciate it.

The second picture in my first post is of the smoke and water out the exhaust. it looks white to me, is the blue smoke a light blue?
I know water can be normal but there was quite a bit, the little puddle in the picture was maybe 3 minutes, and the PO gutted the cat.

The head is going to the machine shop tomorrow and yeah I will defiantly be using all new gaskets when I rebuild.

Could rings be on the way out and still get decent compression?

j2the-e

Looks more like oil from the view on my couch What did it smell like? Burning oil is obvious, and burning coolant has a bit of a sweet smell.
What did the plugs look like? How is the pcv system? How do the cylinder walls look? Smoke on start up only, or all the time? Does it get worse or stay consistent while running?

stock88pickup22re

I had to top off my radiator every few weeks until finally overheating once. Maybe I added cold water too soon before the engine cooled or the overheating warped the head because then I started generating a gigantic white fog bank. That left the exhaust full of antifreeze and dripping everywhere.

I pulled the head and the leak was obvious in cylinder #4 where the carbon was cleaned away on the head and piston and the evidence could be seen on the head gasket.

I had the head surfaced except they made a lot of gouges and the finish was poor. I rough sanded the gouges away until the surface was smooth and then finish sanded until almost to a polish. I tried to be careful and keep the surface as flat as possible.

I enlarged the hole in the head where the rear dowel fits to allow for more expansion and contraction before warping the head. The head was a very tight fit over the dowels before my mod. This is a controversial thing to do. So far so good after about 25k miles.

I like the enginebldr supplied head gasket made for the turbo engine with my 22re. They are made to live with the greater stresses of the turbo and have a smooth surface to let the head slide back and forth on the head gasket without destroying the gasket. I don't like the enginebldr supplied valve cover gasket around 5 years ago made from soft silicone rubber and prefer the black rubber valve cover gasket made from firmer epdm or butyl rubber from autozone or similar instead.

There are plenty of threads on replacing the head gasket and you are already about half way there. Have fun.

BeerRunner

Heres a picture of my plugs and cylinder wall. as far as the smoke it wasent a billowing cloud pretty much just what the picture shows. it actually did not smoke at start up it only smoked when reved up and after a minute or so of idleing.

BeerRunner

heres the pics

stock88pickup22re

The piston in the cylinder at the bottom of the bore in the photo next to the spark plug is very shiny and looks to me just like that was cleaned from burning water in the combustion chamber.

Be sure to get new head bolts and clean the threads in the block where they go. Be sure they are clean and dry all the way to the bottom before finally putting in the head bolts.

j2the-e

Well, I'm afraid it sounds like you were burning oil. That plug is black but doesn't appear to have any wear on it. Hopefully, it was valve seals leaking. Although, typically, valves seals cause smoke on start up only.
You either put it back together and hope for the best, or rebuild the bottom end now while its half way apart

BeerRunner

I guess I might as well rebuild the engine now while its apart, but dont I need the head to be on to pull the engine? I wouldent mind doing the full rebuild if its not too hard. I bought this truck because I wanted to learn to work on them. any good write ups on bottom end rebuild?

BeerRunner

The piston looks that way in the photo. but it has carbon deposits on it. ill get another picture of it when I get a chance

j2the-e

I built my 87 22re the cheap way. Had 200k when I did it. I did not replace the pistons. Quick hone of the cylinders. I used a rigid hone, but a ball hone may be easier for a beginner. I used all FACTORY parts. New rings, bearings, oil pump, water pump and seals.
Beat the snot out of it for 75k miles and never a hiccup. As far as I know its still on the road.

Slowey23

ya dont need the head on to pull the engine, slide a bolt through your chain and screw the bolt into an available threaded hole in the block at opposite corners, where the head bolts screw into will be fine, though on the side of the engine is better

YotaSnap

The coolant may be caused by electrolysis in the head or block this would make sense with an intact HG. Also, if the head bolts were not cleaned before they were torqued down or they were torqued incorrectly, you could be passing coolant through your bolt holes.

From the picture above, your cylinder walls are glossy... take your finer nail lightly from mid to top of the cylinder wall, does your nail click on a ridge? If so you've most likely got an engine on it's last legs anyhow.

It may be worth the money to rebuild that engine or to get a replacement but just make sure you do it right. Do your research and shop around.

Good luck to you and enjoy the adventure!

YotaSnap

Looking over this again, I'd like to pint something out to you...

There's a bolt forward of the timing chain that hold the head down through the timing cover. Was this bolt in place when you removed the head?

Often times people do not replace these or they tighten them to far and crack the timing cover. It looks like you've had a significant amount of oil leakage coming from a crack there.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong but check that out and make sure your chain hasn't started rubbing into your coolant passage.

stock88pickup22re

I should have put engnbldr.com not enginebldr. Sorry.

Here is the place to start:
http://www.engnbldr.com/toyota-ala-carte.html

Here is a better view:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOYOTA-22R-RE-HEAD-GASKETS-KIT-85-95-Pickup-COMPLETE-/390672559162?hash=item5af5e62c3a&item=390672559162&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr
This is the set I used when changing my head gasket. My engine hasn't used any antifreeze or oil ever since. My chain guides looked fine also so I just changed the head gasket. Still good after about 25k miles. I am a fan of engnbldr except some people prefer true Toyota brand parts. Your mileage could vary.