considering swapping in factory 4.88's - have a few ?s
12-10-2008, 01:06 PM
#1
considering swapping in factory 4.88's - have a few ?s
ok, so i've got a chance to buy a set of factory 4.88 front and rear diffs off a V6 4runner for $450. might be a little pricey but i've been looking for them for a while now and haven't had any luck, but still cheaper than converting gears.
I've been doing some searching and need some clarification before I jump in as a lot of this info is spread out through multiple threads...
Here's what i've come up with:
Front:
-factory IFS 4.88 front will swap directly into my 4cyl truck.
-factory IFS 4.88 front will most likely have ADD and it will need to be disabled permanently by swapping the long-side, axle shaft/tube from the non-ADD to the ADD.
-V6 and 4cyl IFS diff housings are identical with the exception that the internals are SLIGHTLY different in that the OD of the carrier bearings being larger on the V6?
Rear:
-factory 4.88 V6 3rd will swap directly in to my 4cyl truck.
-factory 4.88 V6 3rd uses Toyota 4.88 gears which makes the ring gear THINNER than an aftermarket gear as well as has an offset pinion to compensate?
-V6 3rd uses a different pinion flange bolt pattern and will require either drilling some holes or get a triple-drilled flange.
-V6 3rd might have rear ABS hookup and will have to be removed and replaced with a plug or simply cut-off.
-V6 3rd will be better for lockers as it has 4-pinion and will be stronger.
My questions:
-For the front I understand this is probably the best and cheapest way to get 4.88s and is fairly straightforward. for the rear, do you think I am screwing myself over by going with the thinner 4.88 gears? i will most likely install a lockright at the same time, so should I also consider having the 3rd refreshed with new bearings, solid spacer, etc., or leave it? lastly, should i keep the 4cyl 3rd in case I decide to change gears in the future after say a SAS?
sorry for the lengthy inquiry, but I want to do things right the first time.
I've been doing some searching and need some clarification before I jump in as a lot of this info is spread out through multiple threads...
Here's what i've come up with:
Front:
-factory IFS 4.88 front will swap directly into my 4cyl truck.
-factory IFS 4.88 front will most likely have ADD and it will need to be disabled permanently by swapping the long-side, axle shaft/tube from the non-ADD to the ADD.
-V6 and 4cyl IFS diff housings are identical with the exception that the internals are SLIGHTLY different in that the OD of the carrier bearings being larger on the V6?
Rear:
-factory 4.88 V6 3rd will swap directly in to my 4cyl truck.
-factory 4.88 V6 3rd uses Toyota 4.88 gears which makes the ring gear THINNER than an aftermarket gear as well as has an offset pinion to compensate?
-V6 3rd uses a different pinion flange bolt pattern and will require either drilling some holes or get a triple-drilled flange.
-V6 3rd might have rear ABS hookup and will have to be removed and replaced with a plug or simply cut-off.
-V6 3rd will be better for lockers as it has 4-pinion and will be stronger.
My questions:
-For the front I understand this is probably the best and cheapest way to get 4.88s and is fairly straightforward. for the rear, do you think I am screwing myself over by going with the thinner 4.88 gears? i will most likely install a lockright at the same time, so should I also consider having the 3rd refreshed with new bearings, solid spacer, etc., or leave it? lastly, should i keep the 4cyl 3rd in case I decide to change gears in the future after say a SAS?
sorry for the lengthy inquiry, but I want to do things right the first time.
12-10-2008, 01:27 PM
#2
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I dont think you are screwing yourself with a thinner ring gear. I have never seen a 22re break one so you should be fine. Definatly time to do the lockright while it is out, just easier than doing it later
12-10-2008, 01:38 PM
#3
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Last edited by mt_goat; 12-10-2008 at 01:41 PM.
12-10-2008, 01:48 PM
#4
12-10-2008, 02:52 PM
#5
That's not the only way to disable ADD. It can be done with a hose clamp. http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/add/
12-10-2008, 03:14 PM
#7
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Do it. I bought set for $300, had the rear rebuilt and locked and I have been hammering it for the past year. No problems at all! I have never seen a factory 4.88 grenaded.
Im impressed, you searched and got your info straight. Good on ya! I wish more would do the same
Im impressed, you searched and got your info straight. Good on ya! I wish more would do the same
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12-16-2008, 02:34 PM
#8
got my 4.88s - yeah baby!
went and bought myself a x-mas present today...stock V6 4.88 3rd and IFS diffs
these bad boys are filthy dirty and will definitely be needing some cleanup before even being considered for install. paid $485 out the door - a little high, but still cheaper than buying gears and having someone install them. they have 144k on them and are out of a V6 4runner that someone was in the middle of doing a 5spd swap (must have not been able to pay to play). i think i'm going to swap the long side shaft for the one off my truck instead of the hose clamp trick to remove the ADD - that and the non-ADD shaft is much beefier. 3rd will also need the ABS sensor plugged up.
probably won't get around to installing them until next year, but i'm in no rush. gonna also wait for some funds to get myself a lockright for the rear. anyways, here's the pics:
these bad boys are filthy dirty and will definitely be needing some cleanup before even being considered for install. paid $485 out the door - a little high, but still cheaper than buying gears and having someone install them. they have 144k on them and are out of a V6 4runner that someone was in the middle of doing a 5spd swap (must have not been able to pay to play). i think i'm going to swap the long side shaft for the one off my truck instead of the hose clamp trick to remove the ADD - that and the non-ADD shaft is much beefier. 3rd will also need the ABS sensor plugged up.
probably won't get around to installing them until next year, but i'm in no rush. gonna also wait for some funds to get myself a lockright for the rear. anyways, here's the pics:
12-16-2008, 05:54 PM
#10
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You sure they are ok? Almost look like they were in a fire or something.
12-16-2008, 07:46 PM
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Im willing to bet thats just nasty gear oil... Mine looked pretty bad when I pulled them out, but not quite that black. I had mine rebuilt due to toasted bearings.
I would keep the ADD peice, people tell me the ADD equipment is stronger then the non ADD stuff.. Might just be the CV joints though..
I would keep the ADD peice, people tell me the ADD equipment is stronger then the non ADD stuff.. Might just be the CV joints though..
12-17-2008, 02:13 AM
#13
Registered User
My only suggestion would be to extend the diff breathers when you install the new diffs. At the very least the front because it's the more difficult of the two. Good find, wish I could find some 4.88's...
12-17-2008, 02:42 AM
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Yeah... it looks like they recycled their used motor oil by putting it in the diff. You might want to consider a rebuild with new bearings (and a thorough cleaning of the R&P when you do the locker.) At the very least, tighten up the preload on the carrier bearings, and try to get it relatively clean so that you can do a pattern check on the gears. If you decide to take it apart, install a solid pinion spacer instead of a new stock crush sleeve.
12-17-2008, 05:22 AM
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ok, so i've got a chance to buy a set of factory 4.88 front and rear diffs off a V6 4runner for $450. might be a little pricey but i've been looking for them for a while now and haven't had any luck, but still cheaper than converting gears.
I've been doing some searching and need some clarification before I jump in as a lot of this info is spread out through multiple threads...
Here's what i've come up with:
Front:
-factory IFS 4.88 front will swap directly into my 4cyl truck.
-factory IFS 4.88 front will most likely have ADD and it will need to be disabled permanently by swapping the long-side, axle shaft/tube from the non-ADD to the ADD.
-V6 and 4cyl IFS diff housings are identical with the exception that the internals are SLIGHTLY different in that the OD of the carrier bearings being larger on the V6?
Rear:
-factory 4.88 V6 3rd will swap directly in to my 4cyl truck.
-factory 4.88 V6 3rd uses Toyota 4.88 gears which makes the ring gear THINNER than an aftermarket gear as well as has an offset pinion to compensate?
-V6 3rd uses a different pinion flange bolt pattern and will require either drilling some holes or get a triple-drilled flange.
-V6 3rd might have rear ABS hookup and will have to be removed and replaced with a plug or simply cut-off.
-V6 3rd will be better for lockers as it has 4-pinion and will be stronger.
My questions:
-For the front I understand this is probably the best and cheapest way to get 4.88s and is fairly straightforward. for the rear, do you think I am screwing myself over by going with the thinner 4.88 gears? i will most likely install a lockright at the same time, so should I also consider having the 3rd refreshed with new bearings, solid spacer, etc., or leave it? lastly, should i keep the 4cyl 3rd in case I decide to change gears in the future after say a SAS?
sorry for the lengthy inquiry, but I want to do things right the first time.
I've been doing some searching and need some clarification before I jump in as a lot of this info is spread out through multiple threads...
Here's what i've come up with:
Front:
-factory IFS 4.88 front will swap directly into my 4cyl truck.
-factory IFS 4.88 front will most likely have ADD and it will need to be disabled permanently by swapping the long-side, axle shaft/tube from the non-ADD to the ADD.
-V6 and 4cyl IFS diff housings are identical with the exception that the internals are SLIGHTLY different in that the OD of the carrier bearings being larger on the V6?
Rear:
-factory 4.88 V6 3rd will swap directly in to my 4cyl truck.
-factory 4.88 V6 3rd uses Toyota 4.88 gears which makes the ring gear THINNER than an aftermarket gear as well as has an offset pinion to compensate?
-V6 3rd uses a different pinion flange bolt pattern and will require either drilling some holes or get a triple-drilled flange.
-V6 3rd might have rear ABS hookup and will have to be removed and replaced with a plug or simply cut-off.
-V6 3rd will be better for lockers as it has 4-pinion and will be stronger.
My questions:
-For the front I understand this is probably the best and cheapest way to get 4.88s and is fairly straightforward. for the rear, do you think I am screwing myself over by going with the thinner 4.88 gears? i will most likely install a lockright at the same time, so should I also consider having the 3rd refreshed with new bearings, solid spacer, etc., or leave it? lastly, should i keep the 4cyl 3rd in case I decide to change gears in the future after say a SAS?
sorry for the lengthy inquiry, but I want to do things right the first time.
For the front it will most likely have ADD but you don't need to buy anything to convert it - your current IFS diff long side bolts right onto this diff. The ADD diffs are desirable because they have an additional needle bearing on the short side. Don't disable the ADD with a 'hose clamp' or whatever was mentioned before - do it right. One thing you will want to buy is those c-clips that hold the axle in the diff (along with seals). Those C-clips cannot be reused, trust me.
The rear diff is bolt in as you said and you wont be breaking it. In-fact I've only read of one instance of somebody breaking these, ever. I've been running them, front and rear, for about 3 years. Two of those years with 37's and with a Spooled rear.
With the rear I would 'freshen' the pre-load when you install the lock-right by using ZUK's method - http://www.gearinstalls.com/freshen.htm
Don't worry about replacing the bearings, solid spacer, or any of that. Keep the old diff for now - you'll only get 50 bucks or so for it anyway.
Last edited by Kaptain; 12-17-2008 at 05:31 AM.
12-17-2008, 09:19 AM
#16
Thanks for the input guys.
the gears aren't black, they're just covered in thick-ass oil at the moment....almost literally EVERYTHING at the shop was covered in oil. not sure why the oil is so thick on it though.
haven't had time to mess with any of it other than take a quick pic but i was able to do a quick check of the gear pattern in the 3rd since the oil is so thick on the teeth - everything seemed fine. haven't opened up the front diff to check it out yet either, but i'm sure it should be fine as the 4runner only had 144k and looked like it had hardly ever seen dirt before. definitely going to freshen up the CBPL on the 3rd. not sure if i'm going to go with a full rebuild on it at this moment nor am i sure i'm going to get a lockright before i put it in - trying to save ups some serious $ for a rock to put on the gf's finger. for the front diff i've looked at the options and decided that it is best to just swap out the long side. my decision on this is based on the ease of swapping the tubes and the fact that side by side the non-ADD long tube is visually much beefier: http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/IFS_diff2.jpg
kaptain - first off, nice rig man - i really like that hi-lift mount been trying to figure out something like that but only with a lock on it so i can leave it in there all the time. secondly, what's up with the c-clips that you are referring to? i haven't come across this subject yet in my searching and it sounds like an important issue. i'll try to get some more searching in and take a look at a diagram to see what you are talking about.
the gears aren't black, they're just covered in thick-ass oil at the moment....almost literally EVERYTHING at the shop was covered in oil. not sure why the oil is so thick on it though.
haven't had time to mess with any of it other than take a quick pic but i was able to do a quick check of the gear pattern in the 3rd since the oil is so thick on the teeth - everything seemed fine. haven't opened up the front diff to check it out yet either, but i'm sure it should be fine as the 4runner only had 144k and looked like it had hardly ever seen dirt before. definitely going to freshen up the CBPL on the 3rd. not sure if i'm going to go with a full rebuild on it at this moment nor am i sure i'm going to get a lockright before i put it in - trying to save ups some serious $ for a rock to put on the gf's finger. for the front diff i've looked at the options and decided that it is best to just swap out the long side. my decision on this is based on the ease of swapping the tubes and the fact that side by side the non-ADD long tube is visually much beefier: http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/IFS_diff2.jpg
kaptain - first off, nice rig man - i really like that hi-lift mount been trying to figure out something like that but only with a lock on it so i can leave it in there all the time. secondly, what's up with the c-clips that you are referring to? i haven't come across this subject yet in my searching and it sounds like an important issue. i'll try to get some more searching in and take a look at a diagram to see what you are talking about.
12-17-2008, 09:36 AM
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kaptain - first off, nice rig man - i really like that hi-lift mount been trying to figure out something like that but only with a lock on it so i can leave it in there all the time. secondly, what's up with the c-clips that you are referring to? i haven't come across this subject yet in my searching and it sounds like an important issue. i'll try to get some more searching in and take a look at a diagram to see what you are talking about.
The 'c-clips' are actually snap rings, my terminology was a little off as it's been awhile since i've messed with IFS
Here's a tear down to show you what to look for.
04-30-2009, 05:32 AM
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I just went through the exact same thing recently. I would say go ahead and swap out the ADD. Thats what I did, it looks a lot cleaner and its not that big of a bitch you just gotta remember to replace that seal in there and seal everyting up when you put it back together. Its also a good opportunity to clean everything up and my 4.88 diffs bolted right up to my 4cyl axle i just left the abs sensor in there and cut the wire. I would also recomend going with the rebuild kit cause your not gonna wanna mes with it later if it goes bad, also it could hurt your gears and if your saving for a rock your gonna wanna do all of this before you get on that whip because be honest, afterwards it probably wont get done lol.
PS: I would say go ahead an keep your old diff, always a good idea to keep an extra one around, especialy if you wanna regear.
PS: I would say go ahead an keep your old diff, always a good idea to keep an extra one around, especialy if you wanna regear.
Last edited by MegaManX268; 04-30-2009 at 05:37 AM.
05-05-2009, 08:03 PM
#20
To answer the above question:
Nope.
http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/
My question:
I've just picked up some 4.56 diffs but they don't have the ABS speed sensor on them (where as my current 4.10's do). Is it safe to disable this sensor? I'm guessing it pretty much disables the ABS.
I've only ever had the ABS kick in twice, slamming on the brakes on loose gravel (for fun) and randomly at a stop light (normal braking). Didn't kick in when I was sliding around on the ice this winter.
Is it safe to disabe? Or is there a way to retrofit it the sensor on my "new" diffs?
Nope.
http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/
My question:
I've just picked up some 4.56 diffs but they don't have the ABS speed sensor on them (where as my current 4.10's do). Is it safe to disable this sensor? I'm guessing it pretty much disables the ABS.
I've only ever had the ABS kick in twice, slamming on the brakes on loose gravel (for fun) and randomly at a stop light (normal braking). Didn't kick in when I was sliding around on the ice this winter.
Is it safe to disabe? Or is there a way to retrofit it the sensor on my "new" diffs?
