mmcpeck

'92 Pickup, 3VZE, 4WD.

I have to push the clutch all the way to the floor, not just push it, I have to use the tip of my toe and cram it into the floor as far as it will go, and even then my shifting is pretty notchy.

The pedal bracket is fine, nothing at all wrong with it. The slave cylinder was leaking, figured that was the problem, replaced the slave, bled it good, didn't make a difference at all.

Will any of the pedal adjustments make the clutch release sooner, meaning the pedal not slammed to the floor?

There's gotta be something to adjust this, it is killing me...and my left leg.

Also will a shifter bushing and seat make shifting less notchy?

myyota

You might try replacing the clutch master cylinder, if its old it might be going bad internally and not making enough presure to fully release the clutch. It would also be a good idea to replace the shifter seat and bushing if you still have the original ones, go to marlin crawler and order a new shifter seat and bushing, his shifter seat and bushing are a lot better quality then the oem parts. I have them in my 4Runner and they made a huge difference in shifting.

mattaway

If the pedal is as far down as it'll go before it shifts easily, I don't think the shifter seat bushing has anything to do with it.

How old is your clutch?

Try adjusting the pedal and see what happens.

mmcpeck

What is there to adjust on the pedal and how do you do it? Will any adjustment make the pedal release the clutch sooner?

sb5walker

Try adjusting the pushrod out a bit. Just make sure you have some pedal freeplay - that's the distance the pedal travels before meeting resistance. Needs to be somewhere around 1/4" to 5/8". You can increase it by raising the pedal height a bit.

http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b.../2checkand.pdf

If that doesn't do it, it might be the master. autohausaz.com sells the aisins cheap at $67 with free ground shipping.

hilandfrog

Master and slave rebuild kits are available;

Master~$28

Slave~$10


http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...&siteid=214140


Repo

mmcpeck

So I can adjust the rod out a bit without adjusting the pedal height, as long as I still have good freeplay, right?

I assume adjusting the rod out a bit should make the clutch disengage without the pedal having to be pushed as far down, right?

sb5walker

Right. And at the end of pedal travel, it will have pushed further into the master cylinder. Obviously, there's a limit to how much travel is available in the master, so there's not a huge amount more push available, but there's probably some.

EDIT: BTW, in years and vehicles past when I used to rebuild masters (which I no longer do - just didn't give as good results as buying a new one), I used to sometimes find a bit of a ridge at the end of the travel of the seal, not unlike the ridge you can find at the top of a cyl liner where the rings stop. If there was a ridge in your master, then adjusting the pushrod out would result in the rubber seal being pushed over the ridge when pedal pushed down all the way, which would greatly accelerate the disintegration of the seal. Somehow I doubt that this is an issue with Aisin cylinders, but I'm not certain that it isn't.

mmcpeck

So by adjusting the pushrod length I could make things worse?

I'm not sure if this is just how this generation of Toyota truck clutches are, this is the first 5spd one that I've owned, or if something is out of adjustment. I have had other trucks where I can shift smoothly when only pushing the clutch pedal like halfway down, the most 3/4 of the way down, my Tacoma being one. But this one needs to be crammed into the rug to shift smoothly, just doesn't seem normal.

1st and 2nd are the most noticeable. You have to cram it down to get into 1st, and then 2nd is always real notchy unless you are crammed into the rug.

sb5walker

Since you're already barely able to shift it, try adjusting the pushrod out more. If the master cyl goes, or if adjusting the pushrod doesn't help, replace/rebuild the master.

RBX

Pardon my ignorance, if i missed this...but...
is this the original clutch? These sound like the symptoms my friend had on his exact truck before he replaced the clutch at 170k miles.
I have a 92 2wd 22re, and my clutch has 156k miles on it, and my clutch felt way better then his. I noticed that when i drove it, i too, had to push the clutch all the way to the floor.
He did a routine clutch and pressure plate replacement, and now it feels factory.

RB

mmcpeck

Well it's not that I'm barely able to shift, it's just that you have to cram that clutch into the floor or else it's real notchy. If you have the clutch pushed in enough it shifts just fine. It's most noticeable when stopped and putting into 1st, and also when say going around a corner and downshifting into 2nd, if you don't have it crammed down, it will be notchy, but still go into gear, you can just feel the synchro's smashing slightly though, which is annoying, but I though maybe that's just how this tranny is.

My friend had an 88 with the 3VZE, so I assume same tranny, years ago, and I remember 2nd gear always being a problem in it, real nothcy, kind of had to feel it into gear.

I should add that I have also changed out the gear oil and put in Redline MTL 90, so I know it has a good GL-4 fluid in it.

It's not the original clutch, the PO put a clutch in at like 60K. I have no idea what he could have done to a clutch in 60K miles, but he had it replaced. The truck has 100K now, so about 40K on the clutch.

RBX

OK so, unless you ride the clutch ALOT, probably like the PO, then the clutch should be good, and not a concern.
Have you ever felt a brake MC go bad? You have to pump the pedal a few times to gain pressure before the leak in the diaphram bleeds the pressure out again. I would try that with your clutch, sounds like it my be the MC.
With the truck in Neutral pump the clutch (quickly) to see if the pressure changes in the pedal, if it does, i think your MC has gone bad(note: it may still go to the floor, but you should feel a difference in the pedal resistance). I think someone has already mentioned this.

RB

ilostmypants

check the factory service manual and make sure the pedal is adjusted and within spec. if its not. adjust it so that it is. then if its still bad, start to think about replacing stuff.

annoyingrob

I once had a leaky master that I had to pump twice to disengage the clutch. Great fun.

How's the engagement? Does it start to engage almost right at the floor?

mmcpeck

Yeah it engages right off the floor, that's why it needs to be crammed into the floor to disengage. If you push it down so that it's just before all the way to the floor and not into the floor, then you can't get it into 1st, and it is nothcy going into 2nd, like you can hear the clunk as it goes into 2nd notchy, unless you have the pedal crammed down, then it will shift into gear fine.

pruney81

second gear is the same on mine, I've owned a few of these with the W56 and I've noticed you always have to make sure the pedal is pushed all the way in.

Mine has a new clutch and hydraulic components and MT-90 and second is still nothcy like you describe sometimes. Mine only has 105K miles on it now and other than the slight notchiness it shifts great and is strong.

I wouldn't worry about it, I just drove from Mass and I'm sitting in a hotel in Iowa City, Iowa right now, so that's a testament to how stout these are.

At this point I'm just used to really mashing the clutch pedal in and it works fine.

It's way worse when it's cold, and since I've been driving long distances the past few days it's much smoother. As long as it's not's grinding or anything I wouldn't worry about it. It probably wouldn't hurt to change your master cylinder though and give the system a good bleed.

mmcpeck

See now mine is just the opposite. When it's cold the thing shifts like a dream, don't really even need to cram that clutch down as hard, but once it get up to temp, it gets nothcy and you need to start cramming the clutch down.

It's not the end of the world, and I do get used to the clutch after driving it for a while, but it would just be nice if I didn't have to cram it down as much. Never had to do that with all of the manual cars and trucks I've owned over the years.

I will play around with the pushrod length and see if it gets a bit better, if not maybe I will just give a new master a try, the one in it may be original so it could have 101K on it and be getting worn out.

I have no grinding at all, mostly just that notchy 2nd gear, and sometimes 3rd is notchy when downshifting from 4th, but I think that's just me shifting too fast and not getting that clutch all the way down fast enough, since it has to be pushed down so far.

I was just more curious to see if it was just a trait of this W56 tranny, or if others had a similar clutch issue with this drivetrain.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

WILLTHISIFSGOHIGHER

yea mine is shifting good when cold, I need to try the adjustment on the pedal. Im not sure if related but mine feels like I have slop like when Im in 3rd and let off the gas and then re apply gas there is a rough engage of power. And my shifting from 2nd to 3rd is rough like my clutch is not engaging properly.

PismoJoe

Don't know if this helps you out at all but do you know if the flywheel was ever shimmed? if so, its crucial to adjust pedal height to make up for the difference in distance between the clutch disk and flywheel.

And in response to "the clutch shouldn't be bad unless you ride it" all clutches go bad at some point. Especially 25 years later in Toyota trucks. Its like death...just waiting there for you...