ccannon222

I am swapping in a 22r (Carb) long block into my trail rig that currently has a 93 22re. I will be reusing everything from the 93 motor to keep it EFI. I know the EFI and Carb cams have different durations.
How much difference in power and fuel economy will I lose if I stick with the Carb cam? Is the difference with the risk of disturbing the Head Gasket and reusing the old head bolts?

I am thinking about leaving the Carb cam in, run it for 6 months or so to make sure the motor runs ok, ie no oil burn, knock, ect… Then pull the head, put in a new head gasket, timing chain with metal guides, water pump, t-stat, and swap in the EFI rocker assembly and cam.

ccannon222

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

The carb trucks and EFI trucks use the same camshaft, and the same rocker assy.

The only thing benefitting you might be a reduction in wear, but it depends on how abused it is.

ccannon222

I don't recall the exact numbers, but the 22re and 22r (EFI vs Carb) did come with different cams. Same lift, but different duration. The rocker assembly is the same. The reason why I would swap the whole thing is because my EFI cam is used so I want to keep the same rocker arm/adjusters matched with the cam. I will be installing the motor this weekend so I will know soon enough the power difference.

Thanks

ccannon222

abecedarian

I'm at a loss as to why you'd choose the carb over the efi. the efi (stock form) had more hp and torque and is not as sensitve to inclines since it has no fuel bowl to slosh, drip, splork or drain. and you can't use starvation from the fuel tank as an excuse

TOYOTA 1

i went to napa the other day to price a cam. and what he showed is that his stock cam would fit anything from a 79-95, car, truck, 20r, 22r anything. so i think that all stock cams are the same. im not for shure though, and would like to know. also when i looked in my haynes manual "79-95", it only showed specs for one cam.

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

I repeat.....its the same cam....carbbed to injected.

If I am wrong, SOMEone show me so I can learn. I need proof!

TOYOTA 1

i agree cougar.. im just amazed they used the same cam for so long on so many applications.

abecedarian

you may as well ask why they used the 20R/22R/22RE engine/block design for so long.. it worked. even GM doesn't very long without tweaking something on a 350 (and we're all still waiting for valve seals that don't leak after 15,000 miles)
Once ever so often someone actually does follow the mantra of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

TOYOTA 1

lol, i just figured the cam would have evolved with the rest of the top end, "head rockers intake".

ok I'm rambling ill shut up now.

ccannon222

I am not going with a carb setup. I already converted my truck from carb (85 22r) to EFI. I used a 93 22re. I hydro locked the motor a couple weeks ago so the head and rods are trashed. I have a solid 22r motor so I am using the long block and installing the 93 22re EFI parts.

ccannon222

abecedarian

whoops. I mis-read. sorry.

abecedarian

does the carb'd head have all the EFI intake manifold bolt holes?
the efi manifold has more bolts than the carb intake.

ccannon222

Lift is the same but EFI and carb cams have different durations both on intake and exhaust.

Stock Cam Specs:
For 1975 and up 20R's and non EFI 22R's:

Intake Duration- 272 degrees
Exhaust Duration- 248 degrees
Intake Lift- 10.1 mm
Exhaust Lift- 9.7 mm

For EFI 22R's:

Intake Duration- 248 degrees
Exhaust Duration- 280 degrees
Intake Lift- 10.0 mm
Exhaust Lift- 9.7 mm

This is where I took the info:
http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/...toy_motor.html

Targetnut

a couple of different sources indicate that there is a difference in duration as well as a very slight difference with lift.

these are the specs I found:

For 1975 and up 20R's and non EFI 22R's:
Intake Duration- 272 degrees
Exhaust Duration- 248 degrees
Intake Lift- 10.1 mm
Exhaust Lift- 9.7 mm

For EFI 22R's:
Intake Duration- 248 degrees
Exhaust Duration- 280 degrees
Intake Lift- 10.0 mm
Exhaust Lift- 9.7 mm


What is not published is the differences in valve overlap, which may be more of a factor.

The the differences in the intake manifolds would lead me to believe that without the proper cam that the power output will suffer.

How Much?

Me thinks someone needs to do a dyno test.

But your concerns about the wear on the old parts and swapping a used cam to a different set of used rockers certainly may create a problem so you need to weigh that risk against potential performance improvements. depending on how the existing rockers are worn I would consider a new cam, they really aren't that expensive and would definitely help performance.

ccannon222

If I do the cam swap, I will swap in the rocker assembly from the EFI motor along with the Cam. That way I will not have to worry about the wear issue. Both Cams/rocker assemblies are not worn badly. Either way I go, my only questions are, what the power difference is and is it worth risking disturbing the Head Gasket and reusing old head bolts. Buying a new cam will not solve the Head Gasket risk. Buying new head bolts would help.

As for the intakes, both motors are post 84 short deck blocks. IE, the heads are drilled for both style intakes. Also, the 22r long block that I will be using was swapped into an 88 EFI truck and was run with the 88 EFI parts. If the electronics were the same (My trail rig is setup for 89-95 EFI) then I wouldn’t have to pull anything off of the motor. However there are many differences in the electronics as well as the idle up control valve and coolant passage.

ccannon222

Targetnut

I think you are asking for trouble if you try to swap the cam without changing the head gasket.

As far as head bolts, unless there is a problem with the old ones, there is no reason not to reuse them.

84sr5yoty

You're correct. I have the original Toyota microfiche slides and both carb and FI engines have the SAME PART#!!