DupermanDave

Will you get good performance boost with just the engnbldr torkr/crawler cam, or will you need the oversized valves to see a big gain?

Also, I know headers help a lot with stock cams and valves, but will the lack of headers hinder the performance of the performance cam and oversized valves?

fierohink

I'm curious too. I've been running a torkr cam for about 75k miles and noticed a nice increase when I switched. I'm interested in what the gain would be if I jumped to valves. My current exhaust has a stock manifold but bigger from the cat back. Interested in the comparison between stock mani's and aftermarket.

DupermanDave

I know overall I'll get better performance with ALL, but with a standard exhaust setup will overzised valves and a new cam be restricted at all?

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

You will get a good increase with the head work.

But you will get more with also doing the exhaust .

If you do it at the same time you will think it was great do the exhaust later you will think it was the exhaust that did the trick.

This story seems to play out all the time.

Think like this till you do the exhaust you will just be slower getting rid of the hot exhaust gasses.

DupermanDave

I'm looking for some power around 2500 to 3000 rpms. It'll be a slow project, but I'd like to get everything done eventually. So you would recommend the 268 cam over the 261?

Erik Beeman

I'm running EngnBldr's new oversized casting head, with their oversized SS valves, the upgraded 6K springs, the 268C cam, and have a stage 2 porting done to the head from a local shop. Running stock intake and stock exhaust, and it's a very noticable difference for me. Yet again, this is in a 2wd drift truck that weighed in at 2306 lbs with driver. My motor is getting boosted as we speak, so I didn't waste my time with aftermarket intake and exhaust, but I guarantee you that intake and exhaust will help alot with a head like mine. You get intake to get the air into the motor, and get that exhaust to get it out, optimizing the oversized valves and cam. The EngnBldr head is a very good head, and it utilizes a kidney shaped combustion chamber which is a very good design. And, to top it off, you can't beat the price.


FWIW, as previously stated a bagillion time in this forum, it's a drift truck. This means that I abuse the living S*#& out of the motor. DD, it spends about 50% of its life full throttle, 5K+ RPMs. Track day comes around, and it spends 95% of it's time out at WOT, revv limiter.

iamsuperbleeder

^^


hey that looks familiar















I'm running engnbldr's Street/RV head and 261 cam, and the torque stays pretty stead and strong from about 2000 to 4500 RPMS; after that, it pretty much falls on it's face



I can't really say how it would improve on a stock motor just changing the head and cam out, as I installed mine as part of a ground-up rebuild


The majority of the specs of my engine are in my sig, but here's a glance of what's under the hood

olharleyman

Like bleeder I did a full rebuild at about the same time as him and did it all at once but with a 268 cam and L.C.E. pro street head and I go 70-75 everywhere on 35's still get 16mpg and pass cars all day long so I believe you will get a noticeable gain and you can do it with out the header if you go 2" exhaust to the cat /muffler and 2 1/4 out per TED at engnbldr

"The best setup cost wise we have found is to use the excellent factory exhaust manifold, then increase the pipe size to 2" all the way to the muffler, yep, the cat, too. Then we increase again to 2 1/4" on exit all the way back.

This creates a bit of directional flow and frees up power, it fairly quiet and smooth. "

abecedarian

The stock exhaust is a pretty decent compromise between torque and HP since it is technically a "tri-y" configuration.
If you know a decent muffler shop, they can increase the size of the down-pipe, after the two merge into one, to a 2" pipe, or even 2.25", and if they are really good, they can smooth out the merge as well, which will help anything. I had that done (fabricating the merge to a 2.25" pipe) to our '91 because the merge blew out; and that 2wd automatic makes damned good torque right off idle with a stock engine, being able to just about almost break her tires loose punching the throttle when in a straight line and always chirps the tires if you punch the throttle from a stop in a curve.

iamsuperbleeder

it's not AS clean now... and SOME PEOPLE keep poking fun at me because I didn't do anything with the 19 year old brake booster in there, lol



thanks

DupermanDave

I'm gonna duplicate superbleeder's setup, lol. That's the best 22re bay I've ever seen. I'm going to try and do a full rebuild this summer. Planning on a new clutch and new pistons and a new head with cam. gotta start stashing away for $50 per paycheck to fund the thing.

wrenchtech

I think a header is a waste of money on a project like yours. At the rpms you want for optimum torque the stock exhaust is just fine, You may even lose power at that rpm with a header. Just open up the piping and get a high flow cat. 2" head pipe and 2-1/4" post cat. -- Matt

Erik Beeman

Forced Induction will give you must bang for your buck.

$500 on stock ecu make 200hp no problem, turbo variance dependent and intercooled, 300hp easy on MS-II or even the new MS-III for $1K~ These motos just don't make much power N/A (or boosted for that matter, lol), and cams, heads, pistons, just won't wake it up like a brutal V8 would. Force the air into these motors an they'll put out power you want. I've seen it done, and I'm doing it now.

Erik Beeman

The most significant N/A modifications you can do to these motors (lets keep it realistic), is the head with OS valves, aggressive cam (nothing over, i think it's a 276 is usable tho), intake and exhaust. Like said before, first project is to get that head to be able to flow as much air possible. With OS vavles and a aftermarket cam, it'll get that air in and out a bit faster..but pretty useless IMO without an intake and/or exhaust. Feed that motor as much air as you can, make it go boom, and get that burned gases out. You can play with variables in these mods such as porting intake and head, gasket matching, different types/brands exhaust which allow proper backpressure (your truck will not run better straight header, I promise you!), etc. If you use the motor like I, damn near sitting on revv limitier any time it's driven, take a look into upgrading valve springs to avoid valve float.

Erik Beeman

Erik.



I am not compairing apples or oranges, or at least I don't think I am...

In reality, I was talking turbo's/SC's just to give a broad answer as to "YES YOU CAN" make power out of these. My point of posts were to show that, regardless of what you do to this motor in it's N/A form (once again, reality in check here), you really aren't going to make much power from stock. Put a head, cam, intake and exhaust, you'd be lucky to make 20 more HP. Simply put a cam in a V6 or V8, and you're going to make 30 HP in a blink of an eye. These little 4 bangers, and pretty much all brand 4 bangers that era, simply just don't put out the power...hence where my turbo/SC theory comes in...

And as for 200HP, I'm shooting for $500. This, of course, does not include the $2000 I've spent on the motor to except that boost. But I know I can make 200+ with no problem, question is, is how far can I go until I have to run full stand alone. Once stand alone is in the truck, I will push the motor until it blows.


BTW, great discussion. I'm open for hand shakes and face slaps!

camo31_10.50

anybody know what Ted recommends to adjust the valve clearances???

i'm about to adjust my valves and i can't remember what it is LOL..i know it's not the same stock specs..it's a hair tighter lol

Erik Beeman

Very different indeed!

I agree 100%. And still, buying the OS head, cam, and header, still is $500+! I think we can both agree, there is no cheap way to even get a few HP from these 'monsters' ( )

camo31_10.50

yep....ya know..the space between the rocker and the valve stem/spring bucket

i wanna say it was 9 and something?

i don't wanna get em too tight, and i don't want em to be loose either lol, if i do it...it's gonna be done right

i gots the 261* cam from engnbldr

camo31_10.50

is that stock? or is that for one of his cam's??

i think stock is .008 and .012 right?

Erik Beeman

I have the 268 and Ted told me 8 and 11. Make sure motor is warmed up when setting valve lash.