broke my timing chain guide, time to rebuild (pics)
03-27-2011, 02:51 PM
#1
broke my timing chain guide, time to rebuild (pics)
as the title states, the infamous timing-chain-itis has struck my truck. the straight timing chain guide (driver's side) is completely broken, and is probably what i've been finding in my oil. so now it's time to install the new stuff and get this puppy back on the road! (or off the road, i guess)
symptoms i had prior to opening up the valve cover:
-rattle at around 2000 rpm
-knocking under stress
-bits of stuff in old oil
here's the pics and video of taking the cover off and discovering a loose timing chain
timing chain guide broken
and my ride until i get this fixed
so she sits on the side of the house until spring break (last week of april) and i'm going to be cutting down on spending.
on the bright side, i could easily add some bj spacers and a diff-drop while i'm at it...
plan:
i will be replacing the guides with metal-backed ones. that is a given. i will also be replacing the timing chain cover. that is also a given. i'm dropping the oil pan to get it cleaned out, and i might paint it (black).
i might be replacing the following:
-oil pump
-water pump
-radiator
i would like suggestions for parts and methods of doing this right the first time!
i already found these threads, which i will be using heavily
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ingChain.shtml
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...cement-212688/
symptoms i had prior to opening up the valve cover:
-rattle at around 2000 rpm
-knocking under stress
-bits of stuff in old oil
here's the pics and video of taking the cover off and discovering a loose timing chain
timing chain guide broken
and my ride until i get this fixed
so she sits on the side of the house until spring break (last week of april) and i'm going to be cutting down on spending.
on the bright side, i could easily add some bj spacers and a diff-drop while i'm at it...
plan:
i will be replacing the guides with metal-backed ones. that is a given. i will also be replacing the timing chain cover. that is also a given. i'm dropping the oil pan to get it cleaned out, and i might paint it (black).
i might be replacing the following:
-oil pump
-water pump
-radiator
i would like suggestions for parts and methods of doing this right the first time!
i already found these threads, which i will be using heavily
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ingChain.shtml
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...cement-212688/
Last edited by irab88; 03-27-2011 at 03:44 PM.
03-27-2011, 03:35 PM
#2
Registered User
Good luck Ian, It's not too bad of a job. May I ask...why replace the timing cover? Unless it has bad grooves in it from the chain rubbing then it should be fine. That is not a "given" part to replace IMO.
03-27-2011, 04:53 PM
#4
There's tests you can do for the Chain length, etc., ...and many differ on where to get the kit, lately. A few of the newer posts from some pretty respectable Guru's are saying, "Well, get it from Putney's or LCE, I know it's more, but NONE of it's Chinese, it's all OSK, including the Chain that is OEM"(???) lol. I trust Tod and Ted, and I think if you'd had his steel driver guide in there, well, yep, you'd not be having a tangent from one of my FAVORITE NEW THREADS, ...the "coleman pop up wonder emporium!!!" lol.
Tod told me he's not had ANY issues with his Kit, and the entire thing, including Cover for me, was just over a C-Note? Got the receipt somewhere, lol. My cover was REALLY pitted and had some seriously questionable grooves around the oil galley's(the most crucial seal in the cover)....and although I didn't have any railroad tracks,......I do feel better after 48$, SHIPPED! lol.
Yeah, I'm interested in the answers, as some might feel it's best to keep the Toyota Gears?
Sorry it explodeded, Ian, ...but we know you'll slap it in there in no time!
DON'T FORGET THE SEALER ON THAT OIL PUMP BOLT, and make sure it doesn't stick out EVEN A MM from the back of the cover! LOL. oh, YEAH,......"wash your hands before starting?" hahahha. ... I love Tod and Teds instruction sheet. "DO NOT TORQUE THE TENSIONER PAST 12#!!!!" LOL.
And in case you're wondering on the "sealer or no sealer" portion.... both of them and other machinists all told me, "VERY TINY BIT, only blobs go in the corners of the head/block/cover and under the cover between the pan and on the corners there!"
Far as your questions.... Oil Pump, Water Pump, etc. I went with Aisin on the H20 and the builder I used had already put a Rock Oil Pump in. The Aisin Water pump is DEFINITELY built better than the Lower End Napa one(which failed out the weep holes in less than a year on mine!), ...but the High end napa one, (altrom) IS Aisin, from everything I've read. While you're in there, having the drive gears out and drive spline, ....make sure you take the time to check the clearances on those, if you do plan to use the same oil pump or not. Also GET AN OEM(updated!!!) Front main seal, .....it is TOTALLY different in depth from the parts stores. Toyota made them thinner 14 times in order to not run in the same groove as the last one on the Harmonic/Crank. Wasn't that much more, but it's definitely more, lol. 17$ I paid?
IMHO;
New;
1. Chain Kit with Guides
2. Oil and Water Pumps(Aisin? Up to you)
3. Tod has the Covers for 48$, so there ya go
4. OEM Front main seal
5. Toyota FIPG for the oil pan and timing cover light coat. (also 24$ or so, maybe less from dealerdirectparts.com..... 15$?) But many argue on this, and many also say "Gray is fine!" Again, up to you.
AND DON'T FORGET THE BURIDIUM TRANSFUNCTIONER!!!!!!
Best wishes,
Mark
Tod told me he's not had ANY issues with his Kit, and the entire thing, including Cover for me, was just over a C-Note? Got the receipt somewhere, lol. My cover was REALLY pitted and had some seriously questionable grooves around the oil galley's(the most crucial seal in the cover)....and although I didn't have any railroad tracks,......I do feel better after 48$, SHIPPED! lol.
Yeah, I'm interested in the answers, as some might feel it's best to keep the Toyota Gears?
Sorry it explodeded, Ian, ...but we know you'll slap it in there in no time!
DON'T FORGET THE SEALER ON THAT OIL PUMP BOLT, and make sure it doesn't stick out EVEN A MM from the back of the cover! LOL. oh, YEAH,......"wash your hands before starting?" hahahha. ... I love Tod and Teds instruction sheet. "DO NOT TORQUE THE TENSIONER PAST 12#!!!!" LOL.
And in case you're wondering on the "sealer or no sealer" portion.... both of them and other machinists all told me, "VERY TINY BIT, only blobs go in the corners of the head/block/cover and under the cover between the pan and on the corners there!"
Far as your questions.... Oil Pump, Water Pump, etc. I went with Aisin on the H20 and the builder I used had already put a Rock Oil Pump in. The Aisin Water pump is DEFINITELY built better than the Lower End Napa one(which failed out the weep holes in less than a year on mine!), ...but the High end napa one, (altrom) IS Aisin, from everything I've read. While you're in there, having the drive gears out and drive spline, ....make sure you take the time to check the clearances on those, if you do plan to use the same oil pump or not. Also GET AN OEM(updated!!!) Front main seal, .....it is TOTALLY different in depth from the parts stores. Toyota made them thinner 14 times in order to not run in the same groove as the last one on the Harmonic/Crank. Wasn't that much more, but it's definitely more, lol. 17$ I paid?
IMHO;
New;
1. Chain Kit with Guides
2. Oil and Water Pumps(Aisin? Up to you)
3. Tod has the Covers for 48$, so there ya go
4. OEM Front main seal
5. Toyota FIPG for the oil pan and timing cover light coat. (also 24$ or so, maybe less from dealerdirectparts.com..... 15$?) But many argue on this, and many also say "Gray is fine!" Again, up to you.
AND DON'T FORGET THE BURIDIUM TRANSFUNCTIONER!!!!!!
Best wishes,
Mark
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 03-27-2011 at 04:55 PM.
03-27-2011, 06:39 PM
#5
wow, thanks mark! now you've got me thinkin'
ok, so first off, i was thinking about getting the cover, timing chain kit, and both pumps from lce. i'm thinking it would be wise to replace the gears, too, as they come in the kit. i might as well upgrade to dual-row while i'm at it, unless there's a clearance issue with pushing the fan forward. i figure if the single row set gave out this early, the dual row could get me to 300,000+ easily.
for the parts you listed:
1. lce
2. lce (included with the dual-row conversion kit)
3. who are "tod and ted"? seem like nice guys
4. you mean like this? and from the dealer?
5. yeah, that's what i've read. and what do you mean by "light coat"?
i'll be doing a bunch of searching this week. i'll keep you all (mainly myself) with what i'm up to.
one more thing: i only have one week to do this, so i need to order everything in advance, even if i have to order too much and return what i don't use. the sooner the better. what i'll probably do is lay out the entire repair (spread the parts out, go through what needs to be done, etc) before spring break, so i might have some time to enjoy the truck
ok, so first off, i was thinking about getting the cover, timing chain kit, and both pumps from lce. i'm thinking it would be wise to replace the gears, too, as they come in the kit. i might as well upgrade to dual-row while i'm at it, unless there's a clearance issue with pushing the fan forward. i figure if the single row set gave out this early, the dual row could get me to 300,000+ easily.
for the parts you listed:
2. lce (included with the dual-row conversion kit)
3. who are "tod and ted"? seem like nice guys
4. you mean like this? and from the dealer?
5. yeah, that's what i've read. and what do you mean by "light coat"?
i'll be doing a bunch of searching this week. i'll keep you all (mainly myself) with what i'm up to.
one more thing: i only have one week to do this, so i need to order everything in advance, even if i have to order too much and return what i don't use. the sooner the better. what i'll probably do is lay out the entire repair (spread the parts out, go through what needs to be done, etc) before spring break, so i might have some time to enjoy the truck
03-27-2011, 07:46 PM
#6
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03-27-2011, 09:07 PM
#7
wow, thanks mark! now you've got me thinkin'
ok, so first off, i was thinking about getting the cover, timing chain kit, and both pumps from lce. i'm thinking it would be wise to replace the gears, too, as they come in the kit. i might as well upgrade to dual-row while i'm at it, unless there's a clearance issue with pushing the fan forward. i figure if the single row set gave out this early, the dual row could get me to 300,000+ easily.
for the parts you listed:
1. lce
2. lce (included with the dual-row conversion kit)(Totally up to you. I almost did that kit, but that same machinist talked me out of it, ....then STOLE OR AT LEAST LOST my LCE Single Row Steel kit, lol)
3. who are "tod and ted"? seem like nice guys(Yes, as stated, Ted started engnbldr.com, ...Tod is the main man now, running the show on site)
4. you mean like this? and from the dealer?(Well, some might disagree, ....but it says "OEM QUALITY", not "OEM", .....that doesn't mean that it's not EXACTLY the same, made for them or something? I just figured, for 18$ or so, and since my parts buddy at Toyota told me, "Wow, 14 updates since it came out in 87...it's a common problem, so they change their depth"...well, I figured wasn't too much for some extra security.)
5. yeah, that's what i've read. and what do you mean by "light coat"?(As I was saying up there, ....Ted, a 40+ year machinist?>>> Told me, "Mark, people differ, some use none, some use more, ..I use a VERY "light coat" on each side of the gasket and then get the cover on asap...TOO much and you mess with clearances, possibly, etc., and it gives oil more of a path, actually, to find a way out".... I trusted him, ....it's not leaking this time!)
i'll be doing a bunch of searching this week. i'll keep you all (mainly myself) with what i'm up to.
one more thing: i only have one week to do this, so i need to order everything in advance, even if i have to order too much and return what i don't use. the sooner the better. what i'll probably do is lay out the entire repair (spread the parts out, go through what needs to be done, etc) before spring break, so i might have some time to enjoy the truck
ok, so first off, i was thinking about getting the cover, timing chain kit, and both pumps from lce. i'm thinking it would be wise to replace the gears, too, as they come in the kit. i might as well upgrade to dual-row while i'm at it, unless there's a clearance issue with pushing the fan forward. i figure if the single row set gave out this early, the dual row could get me to 300,000+ easily.
for the parts you listed:
1. lce
2. lce (included with the dual-row conversion kit)(Totally up to you. I almost did that kit, but that same machinist talked me out of it, ....then STOLE OR AT LEAST LOST my LCE Single Row Steel kit, lol)
3. who are "tod and ted"? seem like nice guys(Yes, as stated, Ted started engnbldr.com, ...Tod is the main man now, running the show on site)
4. you mean like this? and from the dealer?(Well, some might disagree, ....but it says "OEM QUALITY", not "OEM", .....that doesn't mean that it's not EXACTLY the same, made for them or something? I just figured, for 18$ or so, and since my parts buddy at Toyota told me, "Wow, 14 updates since it came out in 87...it's a common problem, so they change their depth"...well, I figured wasn't too much for some extra security.)
5. yeah, that's what i've read. and what do you mean by "light coat"?(As I was saying up there, ....Ted, a 40+ year machinist?>>> Told me, "Mark, people differ, some use none, some use more, ..I use a VERY "light coat" on each side of the gasket and then get the cover on asap...TOO much and you mess with clearances, possibly, etc., and it gives oil more of a path, actually, to find a way out".... I trusted him, ....it's not leaking this time!)
i'll be doing a bunch of searching this week. i'll keep you all (mainly myself) with what i'm up to.
one more thing: i only have one week to do this, so i need to order everything in advance, even if i have to order too much and return what i don't use. the sooner the better. what i'll probably do is lay out the entire repair (spread the parts out, go through what needs to be done, etc) before spring break, so i might have some time to enjoy the truck
I think it's a good plan, Ian! Whatever makes you more comfortable. I'm not saying LCE's kit is "LEAPS AND BOUNDS BETTER" than engnbldr.... And in fact, I just BOUGHT a bunch of stuff from Tod! lol. Including the 261 CAM(LOVE IT! lol). But I can't say it's "NOT", either, ....and OEM is OEM, period, ya know? I know that LCE's chains are Japanese, I think maybe even OSK? Putney's is REALLY impressive, too, man! Not sure if they have all this, but why not look into it, eh? 22reperformance.com. Jim will most likely answer, and he is FRIGGEN KNOWLEDGEABLE and very clear on why he chooses only OEM this and that, how he's cheaper than some, etc. Pick his brain, tell him I sent ya!
lol. Was a GREAT help to me! Between Him, Tod, Ted, a couple guys at LCE in the Tech Dept.... I've been REALLY blessed to have those guys to pick the brains thereof! lol. They've made a LOT of sense of the "REALLY hard to explain", lately, ya know?
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03-27-2011, 09:53 PM
#9
Registered User
http://www.engnbldr.com/toyota_ala_carte.htm THe 4 piece on the bottom
03-27-2011, 10:23 PM
#10
That's what I did, Mr. Furgeson,.... most of it.
Anyway, I just wanted to add one more thing, .......Member how your engine bay was REALLY quiet before? Yeah, from everything I've heard, I doubt that's gonna be possible to enjoy anymore with that chain kit, hahahaa. It's supposedly quite a bit louder...but really, HOW MUCH? No idea, lol.
Anyway, I just wanted to add one more thing, .......Member how your engine bay was REALLY quiet before? Yeah, from everything I've heard, I doubt that's gonna be possible to enjoy anymore with that chain kit, hahahaa. It's supposedly quite a bit louder...but really, HOW MUCH? No idea, lol.
03-28-2011, 05:00 AM
#11
this morning i just fired off some e-mails to engnbldr and lce, now to wait for the 3-hour time zone difference.
thanks for all that, mark. i had completely forgotten about engnbldr... looks like i might have a new source. the only reason i put "lce" for a bunch of those is because i didn't know where else to look. but i'll be doing a lot more searching this week, so i'll most likely have a parts list by next weekend.
thanks for all that, mark. i had completely forgotten about engnbldr... looks like i might have a new source. the only reason i put "lce" for a bunch of those is because i didn't know where else to look. but i'll be doing a lot more searching this week, so i'll most likely have a parts list by next weekend.
03-28-2011, 05:37 AM
#12
Registered User
Ian,
I've used the engnbldr kit twice. Not OEM, but good quality components, and the price can't be beat. I would take the timing cover off before you decide to buy a new cover. A groove worn in the cover may not be a big deal unless it is VERY thin/deep.
since yo won't be moving the truck, i could try to get down to you and lend a hand.
Good Luck
I've used the engnbldr kit twice. Not OEM, but good quality components, and the price can't be beat. I would take the timing cover off before you decide to buy a new cover. A groove worn in the cover may not be a big deal unless it is VERY thin/deep.
since yo won't be moving the truck, i could try to get down to you and lend a hand.
Good Luck
03-28-2011, 06:15 AM
#13
thanks rb. i need to buy a new cover anyway, even if i need to return it. i only have a week to do this, and i don't want to find out i need something and it'll take more than a week to get here. if i have to pay a "re-stocking fee", so be it, but i want to be over-prepared. from what it looks like, i could probably use one anyway.
ted got back to me (that was fast) and said the "timing kit" in the 4 piece front end kit contained:
and the kit also has:
i'm wondering if this includes the front main seal. also, does he sell both driver's and passenger side guides in the metal-backed variety... e-mail time
hey rb- that'd be great if you wanted to help out, thanks! i won't be touching the truck until 22nd of april (the friday before spring break), but i sure could use an extra set of knowledgeable hands for a day that weekend
ted got back to me (that was fast) and said the "timing kit" in the 4 piece front end kit contained:
Originally Posted by Ted
both upper and lower timing gears, new full roller chain, both guiderails with the driver's side steel backed, new guiderail fasteners, new tensioner
Originally Posted by Ted
all the front end gaskets and seals
hey rb- that'd be great if you wanted to help out, thanks! i won't be touching the truck until 22nd of april (the friday before spring break), but i sure could use an extra set of knowledgeable hands for a day that weekend
03-28-2011, 07:06 AM
#14
Registered User
snip...
and the kit also has:
i'm wondering if this includes the front main seal. also, does he sell both driver's and passenger side guides in the metal-backed variety... e-mail time
hey rb- that'd be great if you wanted to help out, thanks! i won't be touching the truck until 22nd of april (the friday before spring break), but i sure could use an extra set of knowledgeable hands for a day that weekend
and the kit also has:
i'm wondering if this includes the front main seal. also, does he sell both driver's and passenger side guides in the metal-backed variety... e-mail time
hey rb- that'd be great if you wanted to help out, thanks! i won't be touching the truck until 22nd of april (the friday before spring break), but i sure could use an extra set of knowledgeable hands for a day that weekend
Only drivers side Metal rail, the other side doesn't break(usually) unless the other side remains brioken for a while, then the chain slapping around puts more stress on the passenger side.
His kit includes ALL the gaskets you need.
I'll put the 22nd on my calender
03-28-2011, 07:20 AM
#15
sweet. looks like that's the kit i'll be getting. $150 vs $400, yeah, i can live with single-chain.
it seems like what i'll need to order is:
1. engnbldr 4 piece front end kit
2. fipg (oil pan and timing cover light coat)
wow, not bad at all. i could probably add a new radiator at the same time, since all that stuff is out, anyway
it seems like what i'll need to order is:
1. engnbldr 4 piece front end kit
2. fipg (oil pan and timing cover light coat)
wow, not bad at all. i could probably add a new radiator at the same time, since all that stuff is out, anyway
03-28-2011, 07:27 AM
#16
Registered User
maybe E-Fan, not that there is a huge benefit, but it's nice to hear the engine, rather then the fan.
FIPG, you will only need to use this in the corners of the timing cover(block and head) and top of the oil pan since there are gaskets for all of the other contacting surfaces. I just used RTV.
Get some gasket remover spray, and wire brush(one that mounts to a drill greatly helps)
FIPG, you will only need to use this in the corners of the timing cover(block and head) and top of the oil pan since there are gaskets for all of the other contacting surfaces. I just used RTV.
Get some gasket remover spray, and wire brush(one that mounts to a drill greatly helps)
03-28-2011, 08:19 AM
#18
thanks. ha, "soon" is 4 weeks away 
actually, the haundaiis very close to the truck as far as gearing. i'm shifting at about the same intervals, and i'm still hitting 70 mph at 3k rpm.
rb- so you used rtv for both the timing cover and oil pan?
actually, the haundaiis very close to the truck as far as gearing. i'm shifting at about the same intervals, and i'm still hitting 70 mph at 3k rpm.
rb- so you used rtv for both the timing cover and oil pan?
03-28-2011, 08:31 AM
#19
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Well, thats probably sooner then i'll be back in the game. My engine was a MESS!!!
Got some pics. of the carnage on here in a rebuild thread. All sorts of small things busted and needing replacement/fixing. Will take some time but I'll " git -r-done " lol. As for parts im using egnbldr aswell. going to need diff. sized bearings and what not. E-mailed them last week with a question and they replied within 5 min. Talk about customer service.... i was impressed!!!
Got some pics. of the carnage on here in a rebuild thread. All sorts of small things busted and needing replacement/fixing. Will take some time but I'll " git -r-done " lol. As for parts im using egnbldr aswell. going to need diff. sized bearings and what not. E-mailed them last week with a question and they replied within 5 min. Talk about customer service.... i was impressed!!!
03-28-2011, 08:50 AM
#20
what do you mean "going to need diff. sized bearings and what not"?
i love their customer service, too. but right now, yahoo mail is down, so i'll have to wait to contact them (talk about bad timing)
and for radiators, i was thinking 2-3 row, aluminum. i found some on ebay, but i'm not too sure about quality. i know radiator barn is a good source, even though they don't have aluminum. but i think i'll still be happy with one. and the taurus e-fan swap looks good
i love their customer service, too. but right now, yahoo mail is down, so i'll have to wait to contact them (talk about bad timing)
and for radiators, i was thinking 2-3 row, aluminum. i found some on ebay, but i'm not too sure about quality. i know radiator barn is a good source, even though they don't have aluminum. but i think i'll still be happy with one. and the taurus e-fan swap looks good
