Learning

atcfixer

iTrader: (1)

As scope103 said, the machine shop should have the tools to check if the block is within spec, should be the same process for the head.

From my understanding shaving a head is for 3 main possible reasons or a combo of them.

1 - warped head, the shaving process is used to square it back up
2 - make up for gasket thickness difference
3 - increase compression which is more for a performance oriented rebuild such as racing application

scope103

Well, over short distances (single cylinder engines), a GOOD ruler won't be that far out. Also, a reasonable straight edge for a 6 cylinder engine (24" or thereabouts) will run $60-$250. Not the sort of thing found in most small-engine classes. I don't own a real straight edge; I have a very expensive "ruler," but I don't think it's straight to within 0.002" over its length. I still use it, if it is not a really important measurement.

strike2x

Really guy, you sound like you don't k ow enough about the motor to be trying anything on your own. If you want it done right then take the head to the machine shop and have them check and install it. If you want to learn then see if the guy minds if you come observe. You are going to end up throwing a lot of money away if you don't.

Charchee

The head absolutely must go to the machine shop. It needs to be checked for warp, surfaced and checked for cracks.

You can have the world's straightest ruler and the best eyes in the world and you still wouldn't see some of the cracks that I have encountered. Aluminum dust can fill a crack and give the appearance of a good straight surface. In many cases, only after surfacing it will it show up.

The cost of this work will be minimal and again, is, completely necessary if you are installing a surfaced block.

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

You can have the head pressure tested, probably a reasonable price. This will tell if it needs the valves or thier seats worked on.

Checking for trueness, no warp, won't take but a couple minutes (less time than it takes to get the straight edge out in most shops). They may even just lend you the straight edge, it's not unheard of.

Learning

atcfixer, scope103, strike2x, Charchee, Co 94 PU, thanks for yours latest comments/advice/feedback. I really appreciated it all.


After reviewing my options on the head cylinder issue, I would think it would be best to take my old cylinder head to a machine shop where currently my engine block is being repaired. I talked to the machine shop owner earlier today that took in my engine block to be rebuild as mentioned earlier in my previous posts. He told me that he can grind the valves to tear the head down for $60.00. Surfacing the head to make sure it is flat is about $45. If he thinks the head may be cracked, he will pressure test it to make sure it is good and that charge is another $30. He also told me if he have to replace any valves or valve guides that would be added to the cost. Are these above prices reasonable? In case of possibly replacing valves and/or valve guides, I wonder how much additional cost of the valves and/or valve guides would be?


Another machine shop gave me price quote: to rebuild the 22 RE Head, Clean and prep work,Valve Job, Pressure test, Resurface Head or Mill it and New valve stem seals.195.00+ Tax

Remember, both shops above does not include new gaskets and/or 10 new head bolts as compare to buying a new cylinder head kit as mentioned below:

Another option is to buy a new cylinder head that I saw on ebay. Here is the website link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Complete-Cyl...9Vt7yX&vxp=mtr

The above website included gaskets and 10 head bolts.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Compete-Cyli...RVsrEu&vxp=mtr

That one above does not included gaskets.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Complete...FWHTxL&vxp=mtr

All three of the cylinder heads on ebay above requires no core.

Perhaps it is a better option due to the new parts of the cylinder head, since my old clyinder head is 26 years old considering the wear and tear factors. In addition, the new cylinder head includes gaskets and 10 head bolts and no core charge as well. I also think that there is no need to resurface or having warps on the head since it is brand new cylinder head. Is the new cylinder head is the same quality, material-wise, the same or better in comparison with my older cylinder head? Is that new cylinder head is completed with parts on it as shown in the picture on ebay? Sometimes new parts are not good, quality-wise, in comparison with older parts. If I decide and go ahead to get the new cylinder head on ebay, what to do with the old cylinder head? Any parts on the old cylinder worth saving for anything? Can I just sell it as it is and if so who would want to buy my old cylinder head? Anything I need to know or to be aware of on my end regarding these issues? What do you guys think? Comments/advice/feedback anyone?

atcfixer

iTrader: (1)

I'll let someone else comment on the price/new head quality since I haven't had direct experience.

A used head from a running engine should be worth around 60-100 and the buyer is risking a warped head, valve work needed etc. Shipping on the other hand isn't so fun, last one I sold I built my own crate and shipping was $50+, but the crate did add like 20lbs but the head came in the same shape as I sent it.

Learning

atcfixer
thanks for the follow up in your last post.

scope103

Valves aren't expensive; I think I paid $8 each to replace three exhaust valves. Exhaust valves are in a hellish environment, and I wasn't surprised to lose a few.

One thing to think about is the valve stem seals. At some point, you'll acquire a gasket set, which usually includes those seals. You want to get them out of the package and into the hands of the machine shop, so they can install the new seals when they reinstall the newly-ground valves. Otherwise you have to take the valves out to put in the seals, which is double work.

But, $260 for a head with gaskets sure sounds attractive. I paid almost that just for machine work on 2 heads (3vze).

What would you do with the old head? Do you have a boat?

Learning

scope103 Thanks for your imput, especially you mentioned about valve stem seals to be put in by the machine shop owner.

As for what I do with the old heads. If reusing for repair work, surely I keep it. If not, due to buying a new head, I don't know other than selling the head if possible.
No, I do not have a boat.

scope103

A joke.

If you're saving money (over having a machine shop recondition your head) by buying a complete reman head, then your old head is probably just a "boat anchor." My local recycling yard will only buy scrap aluminum if you have 50 lbs or more.

But if you can sell it, go for it!

strike2x

One note of warning.. I purchased a cylinder head kit with gaskets and timing set for my Toyota. It was from car parts wiz. It took 3 weeks and many aggravating phone calls and eBay intervention to finally get all my parts. To top it off, once I got the parts and put my motor back together, when I went to set the valves after a break in period I found the cam was soft. It ruined my rockers and filled my motor with metal particles. The next step was to tear the thing apart again, replace cam, with one from a spare head that I didn't want to spend money at machine shop on, and rocker assembly from same head. I had to buy new gaskets and redo the job. To redo my head was going to be 150. In all, I spent over 500 for my eBay mistake not to mention having to do the job twice. Luckily I caught it before my motor was ruined and it now runs great.... If I had to do it over my local shop would be building my head for sure. I now have 2 spare heads and one is going to the shop in case this boat anchor I got from Car Parts Wiz pukes on me....

Charchee

I would normally say to have the machine shop build the head but, like the machinist, I also think your head may be cracked. I bet the ebay cylinder head is probably pretty fair quality. The thing I would be concerned with is the gasket and bolt set. I would rather have the new head and then buy the gasket set on my own so I know what I'm getting. If you think about it, the gasket and bolts are the primary weak point in the job. You need to be sure you get that part of the job right for sure.

strike2x

After a lot of research I found that it is not really necessary to replace the head bolts on the 22R motor. If yo have o e apart you will see the size of them and when you research you will find that because they are torqued to spec and not torqued to Value they don't NEED to be replaced. I did replace mine since ce they came with the kit but I didn't replace them when I tore it apart to replace the cam that was bad.

strike2x

As I said earlier in case it you didn't read back, don't buy from them. Very poor service and my head had a bad cam and when I replaced it a couple of the cap bolts striped before hitting torque. I had to fix them and between that and the cam I must question the quality of the part. Maybe I got the only bad one but I doubt it.

Learning

scope103, you have a good sensor of humor and thanks for your imput.

Strike2x your latest two posts were an eye opening for me, especially when buying parts on ebay and the head bolts issues as well. Thank you for your invaluable insight and sharing your experiences with us all.

Charchee, thanks for your imput as well, especially the gaskets set. I appreciated it.

Here is what I have done today:

I went to the same machine shop that is now rebuilding my short block. I asked the shop owner about the grinding on the crankshaft where the No.1 piston rod connector (that is going to be replace) and replacing the rod bearings. Once the grinding is finish, the rod bearings replacement would have to be a little larger/thicker in size to line up the rest of the rod bearings that are in good condition. The shop owner confirmed that I am correct. Now we were getting somewhere. Because of the members of this forum wrote on some of the issues I am dealing with right now, I was abled to ask specific questions to the machine shop owner and gettting the right/correct answers. Sometime it is best to ask the questions, even though you or I for that matter, knows the answers beforehand, in order to confirm/verify the issues at hand and being on the same page without misunderstanding or not saying the correct words/technical terms. In other words, know what you are talking/writing about to avoid throwing off balance on the issues at hand. Being clear and concise is very important and get to the point. There are those of us who took this process for granted and not realizing others are not equipped/knowledgable to understand. That is the real tragedy of it all because there are those who will take advantage for their personal gains at the expense of others. I am still learning this process. Live and Learn.

I also asked the shop owner about reusing the head bolts. The head bolts can be reuse again on the rebuilt engine and head cyclinder. No need to buy new 10 head cylinder bolts.

I also mentioned the valve stem seals replacement as mentioned by scope103 in his previous thread and was told it comes with the gasket set. That raised red flags on my end since the shop machine owner was trying to sell me engine gasket set, timing kit and gasket sets. I just wanted to have valve stem replacement on the head cylinder. He said it would cost about $7 a piece. I told him to go ahead and replace the valve stems seals and forget about the engine gasket kit or set, cylinder head set/kit, and timing set kit as well. He showed me the timing kit inside his stock area and the asking price was much higher than advertised elsewhere (ebay, amazon). Bottom line is I just stick with the rebuilding short block and head cylinder, nothing more. I can do the rest of putting back together the short block and the cylinder myself along with timing chain kit, timing gasket set, etc. No need to buying unnecessary and expensive parts that I don't need. Be on guard when something like happens. I also noticed in engine gasket kit, timing chain kit, and the head cylinder gasket kit, have some more same gaskets then needed or duplicates gaskets. No need to have additional gaskets, depending on the situation at hand. Because of you all reading and writing on this forum, I have gain invaluable knowledge and asking the right questions to get the right answers I need to know. Remember knowledge is power!! and use it to your advantage for the right/correct reasons and helping others as well. You guys ROCK!! Thanks!

The engine and head cylinder rebuild should be finish in about two weeks before I pick them up.. I will continue to update and monitor my progress by writing on this forum. Stay tune for further advertures of my rebuilding engine project.

strike2x

O e thing I would always recommend because it is standard practice with new rebuild is you replace the oil pump. They are inexpensive and a good insurance even if the old one looks good. When. I did the head on my truck I replaced the timing chain and oil pump because I did not want to have to do it later. I ended up tearing down again but not because of parts I did not replace. I am thinking about building a new motor for my truck anyway since I. The process I have accumulated enough parts and just found a good buildable motor.

strike2x

Is your truck a 22r or re? I did buy a nice Asian carb off eBay but now wish I had spent a little more for a Webber........

Learning

strike2x, thanks for your feedback. Yes, I am going to replace the oil pump and water pump as well. My 1992 Toyota pickup is 22re, efi (electronic fuel injection).

I compiled a list of things to do prior to getting back the rebuilt short block and the cylinder head:

Complete Engine Gasket kit that includes gaskets goes on cylinder head as described :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Complete-Eng...RYkFT~&vxp=mtr

Noticed the oil pan gasket is included as well in the above completed engine gasket kit/set.

85-95 Toyota 2.4L Timing Chain Kit(Steel Guides)+Cover+Oil&Water Pump 22R 22RE:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/85-95-Toyota...VVe0vM&vxp=mtr

Notice the timing chain kit includes oil pump, water pump and the timing cover as well.I am going to replace the timing cover due to previous banging trying to remove the old timing cover when I discovered two bolts were hidden and did not remove them earlier as described in my post. I think the old timing cover is warped as a result of the banging.

I believed I covered all the necessary gaskets as described above.

Pressure plate, throw-out bearing, and clutch pressure plate replacements. Another name for clutch kit and flywheel? I am debating whether I need to replace the old flywheel with a new one. Anyone has an issue with the old flywheel (original) and should I replace it?

Clean alternator and starter motor using engine degreaser.

Oven cleaner to clean the inside the hood area and use hot water pressure washer to rinse out.

New spark plugs.

new fuel filter

new 30 weight non detergent motor oil

new anti freeze

Clean oil pan.(need new oil pan gasket)

Replace thermastat and its gasket. I had stripped the thermastat housing threadbolt earlier. I am aware of the stripped thread on the thermastat housing that is another size larger bolt than the other one. Possibly use threadlocker to secure the bolt on the thermastat housing.

take certain parts off the old motor and put on new/rebuilt motor. Clean them up.

Clean valve cover and make it look nice by possibly painting it?

Clean out/replace old gaskets on parts such as intake manifold,exhaust manifold and oil pan.

Clean old parts that goes on the rebuilt/engine including the oil pan.

All rubber hoses, vacuum hoses, electrical connectors, belt, are good.

Distributor, spark plugs wires are good.

CLEAN the EFI (Electronic Fuel injector located on the intake manifold)

Clean fuel injectors or replace? Fuel injector kits?

I am replacing the radiator with a new radiator replacement. I took the old radiator to a radiator shop to have it tested. The radiator shop owner pressured test the radiator and one of the thin metal lining pop out. He pushes the lining back in. He told me the radiator is fine but will need to replace the radiator due to the loose metal lining and eventually will wear out. I asked the radiator shop owner can the radiator be fixed or repaired and he said no. It is best to put in a new replacement radiator now. Here is the radiator I intended to buy:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/945-New-Radi...y/170727081756

Trans input shaft seal replacement? Manual Trans Input Shaft Seal Front Precision Automotive 223253. Is it necessary to replace Trans imput shaft seal? Here it is:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Manual-Trans...JYtuY9&vxp=mtr


I believed I pretty much cover everything that I am aware of at this point. Any additional gaskets needed other than the ones listed above? Any comments on this list?