wmayota

This is the third year in a row I've had to replace the lower ball joints. Truck is stock, no lift. I run 32x11.5's in the summer, don't wheel that much and when I do it is never anything too extreme. Just lookin for someone else's .02. Thanks.

xxxtreme22r

same manufacture ball joints? Which ones?

greencactus3

how often are you greasing them?
packing them up enough after install?

wii_tarded

quit jumping speed bumps jk

wmayota

Moog ball joints, both times. i replaced the ball joints all around when I bought the truck three years ago. Uppers are still good.
I grease them about once a season (beginning of Spring, Summer, etc.) I should do it more. I know I should do that more, but like I said only the lowers have been going.
Ever since I have bought the truck there has been a camber issue. The tops are leaning in (Inside of tire wears first) Replacing the ball joints fixes this a little, but not much, and the wheel bearings are tight. My thought was that this was placing extra stress on the lower ball joints and causing them to go. Again, looking for others .02.

highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

sounds like your negative camber issue is what's causing the failure. have you gotten an alignment yet to help with the camber? sounds like a cheaper solution than replacing BJs every year and wearing out your tires prematurely. i know that BJ spacers push the tire into positive camber before alignment - so if you can't adjust the camber enough, they might help get it closer?

wmayota

I searched how to adjust camber. I'll give that a try when I get some time, repleace the ball joints, and see where i'm at next year.

Magnusian

I fixed your post for you.

sebastianholmes

^^^^ listen to him. dont try to do an alignment yourself. take it to a shop.

wmayota

Thanks, needed that, lol. Kind of a time thing, and time isn't on my side. Hopefully will get to it this weekend.

xxxtreme22r

if your gonna attempt to do your own alighnment, I would highly suggest using this as a guide: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...ite-up-163432/

MudHippy

Well there's your problem!

OEM ball joints are FAR superior to any aftermarket.

How do you figure that? Please explain in thorough detail.

Bad for tire wear? YES. Ball joints? I....don't think so. How/why would the ball joint care what the camber is? You do know that the camber angle is constantly changing as the suspension compresses and extends right? More positive during compression(up travel), more negative during extension(down travel). The ball joints are designed to allow for that. They'll actually handle more extreme camber angles than you could ever apply to a stock suspension setup.





It's NOT rocket science!

Hint: Proper wheel alignment isn't necessarily going to extend the life of the ball joints. Proper maintenance might though. But, you really should spend the extra $ on some OEM ball joints if you want them to last. They're practically indestructable. I've still got the factory original uppers and lowers on my 88. Which have been used and abused more than you can possibly imagine for the last 230k+ miles, and they're still damn near good as new.

Odds are the original ball joints that were on your rig are still good too. Likely replaced by someone who ineptly misjudged their condition, and replaced them in an attempt to solve an issue that was unrelated. Or by someone not familiar with their robustness, in an attempt to perform a "preventative maintenance" measure.

That's my $.02.

PS, ever wonder why there are no "Heavy Duty" ball joints on the market for these rigs? Because they're not needed. Stock BJs are more than sufficient.

xxxtreme22r

this reminds me, I still have the OEM ones on my 87 as well, but only 178K on the truck, but that 178k might as well be 300k due to salt belt area. lol. I could probably use to do a driveway alignment as well. But need some new steering components as well. ie Idler arm and maybe replace the newish MOOG pitman, as my relay rod tilts back and forth with steering movement. Well, at least with someone moving the tires violently by hand checking for play.

highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

i always understood the camber of an IFS vehicle to be opposite of what you've said. Since the control arms are fixed to a pivoting point on the frame, when the tire/arms go upward, camber goes negative ( / - \ ) because of the way everything pivots; when the tire/arms goes down, it's the opposite and camber goes positive ( \ - / ). that's just the basic physics of the tire as the control arms rotate within their radius.

i'm not saying it's the ball joint that's causing the failure of the tires, it's possibly the extreme camber issue that's causing the failure of the ball joint and tire wear when at normal ride height. yes, ball joints are designed to articulate as the suspension cycles, but for the most part they are designed to be used in a situation where the BJ is set somewhere near center of it's range of movement when at normal ride height/flat roads - and for most of us, this means the tire is pretty much vertical. if his camber is off enough when set at normal ride height, then there will definitely be some added stress to the BJ because they're no longer set in the center of their range of motion, they are off to one side. start articulating the joint even further to this side and somethings definitely going to fail - which seems to be the complaint of the PO.

now the true question is: what is causing the camber to be so far out of spec, thus causing premature wear on everything else? my vote is that either it just needs to be aligned again or a previous owner was jumping the truck and spread the lower control arms apart (which is why the IFS brace/truss is a good thing).

btw, firestone does a lifetime alignment for about what you'd pay for 2 regular alignments anywhere else. take it in as often as you like and let them tell you what's wrong with it whenever you goof something up offroad

wmayota

That's the link I was talkin about when i said I searched for it. As far as why I guessed camber...

Logically, with negative camber there is going to be continuous stress on the joint even when the suspension is at rest. I know when properly aligned there would be stress on the joint, but with the negative camber I thought there would be continuous pressure on the joint as the wheel tries to pull the joint out towards it.

Far as what I'll do is I'll go to the dealer tomorrow, order some OEM ball joints, grease um like crazy, and get a proper alignment.

ra33it

When I replaced my ball joints last week, I noticed they were stuffed with a white waxy grease, off hand I'm guessing lithium....

Grease I use on my U joints and slip yolks is a lithium grease, but its grey and softer....

Grease I use on my wheel bearings is red and super sticky/wet....

What are you folks using in your ball joints? I couldn't find a reference in my FSM.

Kiroshu

260k on my 86 4runner with all original ball joints.

Grease gun ftw.

ra33it

While I appreciate your sentiment, I wish you mentioned what kind of grease is coming out of that gun

As an aside, I just pull off pretty much all of the original OEM equipment with 240,000 miles on it. It was totally beat. Truck drives so much better now (though that might have something to do with how much lighter my wallet is now...)

MudHippy

Bass-ackwards there buddy. I knows my 86-95 Toyota 4WD IFS like the back of my hand(built my 88 chassis essentially from scratch from the ground up).

I repeat...

Tire/arms go down = camber goes negative, tire/arms go up = camber goes positive. Sorry, I hate to break it to ya...
White grease = White Lithium Base NLGI #2 Chassis Grease, Toyota part # 08887-80219 or equivelant. Toyota specifies this type for propeller shaft u-joints.

Grey grease = Molybdenum Disulphide Lithium Base NLGI #2 EP(Extreme Pressure) Chassis grease. Toyota specifies this type for ball joints, double cardan joints, steering knuckles, and front axle shafts.

Red grease = "Tacky" High-Temp EP ? Base NLGI #2 Wheel Bearing & Chassis/MP(Multipurpose) grease. Toyota specifies Lithium Base MP grease for wheel bearings, by that they likely mean a High-Temp EP or NLGI GC-LB rated type.

G = Wheel Bearing
C = Mild to Severe Duty

L = Chassis and U-Joint
B = Mild to Severe Duty

Thank you!

Proves my point.

ra33it

Yesssss... Hippy, you're the man.

I think maybe I'm just using a non-toyota part for the lithium grease which was throwing me for a loop. Its a really really dark almost black grey. The moly is much lighter. I got the memo on moly for the cardan joints from this article way back when: http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/mainte...ront_end/lube/

Thanks!