footofgod

First official post on Yota, but I use the forums often.

Some may be familiar with my story form another forum, but for those who don't.......

Took my 91 4runner through some heavy thick mud (I know, mistake number 1). Drove it to the carwash, turned it off, washed it and restarted and drove home. Washed the engine bay with garden hose when I got home and walked away.

Next day, battery is dead and no start. Tried jumping, but a no go and got some smoke coming up from the right side of the engine under the alternator. Checked wires and could not find anything burnt out. Took alternator and battery to parts store for testng and both tested bad, so They have both been replaced.

Still no start.

using FSM, we have checked:

Spark-good, replaced plugs
Fuel pressure:good
AFM-tests good
Ignition coil replaced
ECU-reset
No codes
Distributor harness-good
EFI main relay-good
All other fuses-good

So a few questions:

If the distributor is bad will I still get spark?

If I have fuel, air and spark, what could be preventing a start. We did try starter fluid with no success,

Could a bad ground line prevent a start even though all the essentials are present? Myself and a friend are completely stumped.

footofgod

BTW, I have been searching this and other forums for 3 days now.

sechott

If you're getting fuel, air and spark it must be timing. Have you checked the distributor is pointing to #1 with the #1 cylinder a TDC?

footofgod

Distributor is installed correctly and timed per FSM. Still no start.

If I have fuel, air and spark, there is an electrical gremlim.

Suggestions on what to check? Specifically things that will prevent a start assuming mechanical is working fine.

Is there a way to check the ECM without swapping one in?

Will the Cold start injector prevent starting?

Redneck_Yota7

I have a 91 pickup with the 3.0 in it. It would still start even if the cold start injector is bad, i had mine go bad it just made it hard to start when it got colder so i replaced it. i am trying to figure out the same problem with my truck right now. i've checked all the things you have, and was about to check compression, and the pcv valve just for the small hope that it could be something simple like that. the only difference between our problems it sounds like is mine got extremely muddy on memorial day and then died and wouldn't run the wed after, i didn't wash it though. i have been looking for a way to test the ecm so if you hear of one if you could let me know, and i can do the same for you.

have you checked the timing belt to make sure all that is lined up?

i would suggest that, or the compression test. the compression test can tell you a lot about what's going on inside the engine.

svdude

iTrader: (3)

I have been trying to help him out on getting his runner to start.

We have verified that we have spark. We hold the plugs about a half of an inch away from the block and can see an obvious spark coming from the spark plug.

We tested fuel pressure at the fuel rails. We cracked a fuel line and tried to start the engine. A mass amount of fuel sprayed everywhere... So we have good fuel pressure.

We did a noid light test on the harness for the fuel injectors. The noid light test confirms that the ecu is telling the injectors to fire.

We have a new air filter and the throttle body is a little dirty but definitely not dirty enough to prohibit air from coming in and allowing the engine to start.

We double and triple checked the ignition timing. We pulled the #1 spark plug and turned the crank to 5* BTDC and verified the #1 piston was at TDC. Then we installed the distributor per the FSM and hooked all the plug wires in their correct spot on the cap.

Footofgod tested the ECU and the test shows that the ECU is good.

We did a compression test and the compression was at 120psi. Even though 120psi is a little low, his motor was running strong enough to out run my beefed up 22re. And up until the other day, his motor ran flawless! It idled great, sounded great and drove awesome.

So... After all this testing we know that we have fuel, spark, air, good ignition timing and the ECU is good. We checked all fuses and relays and everything checks out okay. The only thing that I can think of at this point is the mechanical timing and MAYBE the idle air control valve (only because the FSM has a likelihood of 2 for that valve).

Any thoughts on what we should test or look at next?

ksti

It ran fine up until you washed the motor. So something got wet maybe that shouldn't have possibly causing a short or a ground wire got knocked off. Just a thought. I don't know why you would have to do a compression test.

svdude

iTrader: (3)

We looked at all the visible wiring and ground and everything seemed fine. No real testing beyond that other than a continuity test between one of the ground wires to make sure that it was getting a good connection.

In my mind, the electronics are good. As long as we're getting good spark, fuel, and the ignition timing is good, then that leads me to believe that the entire electrical system is good because that is all that the electronics control. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Redneck_Yota7

svdude how do you check the ecu on these? i haven't been able to find anything regarding that for my truck. that's strange that it out ran your 22re with that low of compression, i think it's supposed to be between 140-170 psi for compression. was there large differences between each cylinder? I would have to agree with you on your thoughts on the electrical system.

well if something got wet, like a short or ground wire not working for some reason, then the electrical equipment wouldn't work, and by the next day everything would've been dry enough that the water that was on any electrical system and wouldn't be a problem, unless maybe the key was on.

svdude

iTrader: (3)

There's a task for it in the FSM. I forget where exactly but it's in there, I believe under the MFI section.


He has a stock drivetrain with stock size tires. I am lifted a bit with 35" tires on 4.88 gears.

Thank you.

If someone else disagrees with my line of thinking on the electrical system, please speak up and let me know why so I will have a direction to look in to.

svdude

iTrader: (3)

@ Redneck_Yota7:

ECM Test:
http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/1990-1995...yste/engin.pdf

Redneck_Yota7

I'll have to have a little bit more of looking around for how to test it. if i think of anything else i'll post it

Redneck_Yota7

thank you so much for the url! that is exactly what i was trying to find, and will be very helpful for tomorrow afternoon when i get off work.

Gonzo4Runner

Is the ECU giving any codes?

Also, the above link shows details for the 22RE not 3VZE. There are differences, especially in the ignition circuits.

Redneck_Yota7

Gonzo4Runner the link that goes to is for a FSM that is for both the 22RE and 3VZE. it has both engines in the same manual.

footofgod

Okay fellas, here's a question for the smart guys:
We pulled the front cover of the motor to see the timing belt. According to the FSM the crank should be at 0* TDC and the tick marks #1 and #2 camshaft pulleys should line up with the tick marks above the pulleys on the motor.
See the attached pics below:
The tick marks do not line up and another thing to note is that there are two other marks on the cam shaft pulleys that almost line up with the tick marks on the motor. Why would those other white lines be there?
The other weird thing that doesn't seem to fit in my mind is that I doubt that the the timing belt would have slipped that much at once. It's possible but I'm doubtful.
Here's where the smart guys provide their input!!
One other thing to remember here is that the motor was running great and smooth before we cleaned the engine bay.

svdude

iTrader: (3)

Okay guys, according to the FSM, the mechanical timing is all kinds of jacked up. I do find it hard to believe that between washing the motor and cranking it the belt would slip that much if at all. Maybe it did because according to the FSM, the timing is not right which would explain why we have spark, air and gas but no boom boom to make the engine run.

Tomorrow, I plan on helping FOG re-do his mechanical timing unless someone here can convince me otherwise.

I have no experience with the 3-VZ motors but am following the FSM. If anyone objects to what I'm thinking here please speak up.