RSR

Don't remember seeing anything on here, so thought I'd share.

Put the results from this June 2013 Amsoil test (independent lab, http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3115.pdf -- but Amsoil likely ran many tests and is only publishing those most favorable, but it's interesting nonetheless).

They tested 10 5w30 full synthetic oils across 5 tests.

Based upon average rankings, here's how they fell: (Rank: Avg Ranking - Oil)
1. 1.6 - AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil
2. 4 - Pennzoil Ultra™
3. 5.4 - Valvoline SynPower® Full Synthetic Motor Oil
4. 5.6 - Castrol Edge® with Titanium Fluid Strength Technology®
5. 6 - Red Line High Performance Motor Oil
6. 6 - Quaker State Ultimate Durability™
7 tie. 6.2 - Mobil 1™ Extended Performance
7 tie. 6.2 - Royal Purple High Performance Motor Oil
7 tie. 6.2 - Lucas Synthetic
10. 7.8 - Petro-Canada SUPREME Synthetic™

Based upon times falling in the bottom one-third (ranking 7-10 in tests), here's how they fell: (Rank: # of times in bottom one-third - Oil)
1 tie. 0 - AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil
1 tie. 0 - Pennzoil Ultra™
3. 1 - Valvoline SynPower® Full Synthetic Motor Oil
4 tie. 2 - Mobil 1™ Extended Performance
4 tie. 2 - Lucas Synthetic
4 tie. 2 - Royal Purple High Performance Motor Oil
7 tie. 3 - Red Line High Performance Motor Oil
7 tie. 3 - Quaker State Ultimate Durability™
7 tie. 3 - Castrol Edge® with Titanium Fluid Strength Technology®
10. 5 - Petro-Canada SUPREME Synthetic™

I was surprised at how poorly my currently preferred oil, Castrol Ti, performed in some of the tests. Might need to reconsider at my next oil change.

Amsoil has oil cost estimates in there as well -- Amsoil runs $50/year versus double for all the other oils... But Amsoil says needing changed only once -- personally, I'm not comfortable with doing that unless installing a remote bypass like Pareto Points Top Dog 5 prior to running just one oil change annually.

Regardless, worth checking out and thought I'd share.

85toy4runner

In my 22re I run amsoil 10w40 Premium Protection Motor Oil, it has a zinc formula . I was thinking of going with 5w30 or 10w30 next time not sure which one. anybody run 5w30 in there 22r engines ? lowest temp it prob sees is 48deg to 90deg or so

RSR

Also note this test from last January, published in March: http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013P...sallfinal.html

I'll be putting a summary of this together over the weekend as data will require some formatting to look at several of the same or similar physical tests/performance tests here as those Amsoil ran. If there's any particular oil from this chart you want included, please post below. Otherwise I'll just pare it back to a dozen or so as I see fit.

That said, we can take a quick look at the additives/elemental analysis. The only thing that sticks out to me is that Castrol is the only oil to use magnesium as its primary detergent, ~2/3rds (66%) of its detergent package -- Mobil 1 uses magnesium as ~40% of their package. All the other oils are overwhelmingly calcium based.

Bob's has a good summary on various oil additives and funciton: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/engine-oil-analysis/

RSR

Head over to BTOG and read their motor oil university. Tons of good info there. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

The question is why the 40 weight oil currently. And then switching to 30 weight.

The 0, 5, 10w, really don't matter. The first number is the viscosity when cold. The second number 30, 40 is the viscosity when hot. You can customize your oil to your engine by looking at oil pressure when engine is hot and under load: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-105/

85toy4runner

I wasn't sure if I might of got to heavy of oil or not with the 40w

RustBucket

iTrader: (1)

Personally, 40w oil just "feels" better in a 22RE than 30w. Probably either would be perfectly fine.

JohnnyCanuck

I use penzoil ultra 5w30, because the po was using it. I used quaker state U.D. in my gmc for 22 years until I sold it.

osv

I imagine that there is probably a thread for this test over at btog... i'd want to read that before using this test to make a decision on what oil to run.

RSR

It's all a lot conjecture. Hence, the comparison.

RSR

Okay, I ran the rankings on these two tests apples to apples. I had to drop the 4 Ball Wear Test and Thermo Oxidation ones from the Amsoil as PQI didn't include in their test. Also, neither Redline nor PetroCanada were included in the test, so I subbed Super Tech and Schaeffers Supreme instead. So 10 5w30 full synthetic oils across both tests. Also, note that there were some same-brand substitions Amsoil OE for Signature Series, Castrol Syntec for Ti, Standard Mobil 1 for Extended, etc (think it's just those three but verify with links above).

Tests were for

• Total Base Number (ASTM D2896) - Reserve alkalinity to neutralize acids from engine blow by, heat, etc (goes to how frequently you need to change your oil, all things being equal)
• Cold Cranking Viscosity (ASTM D5293) - Apparent viscosity of oil at -30*C (-22* F) for 5 weight oils.
• NOACK Volatility Test (ASTM D5800) - Determines the evaporative loss of engine oils

Amsoil Tests for Total Base Number (ASTM D2896), Cold Cranking Viscosity (ASTM D5293), and NOACK Volatility Test (ASTM D5800).

Average Rankings:
(Rank: Avg Ranking - Oil)
1. 1.7 - AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil
2. 3.3 - Pennzoil Ultra™
3. 4 - Mobil 1™ Extended Performance
4. 4.7 - Red Line High Performance Motor Oil
5. 5.3 - Quaker State Ultimate Durability™
6. 6 - Castrol Edge® with Titanium Fluid Strength Technology®
Tie 7. 7 - Valvoline SynPower® Full Synthetic Motor Oil
Tie 7. 7 - Royal Purple High Performance Motor Oil
9. 7.7 - Petro-Canada SUPREME Synthetic™
10. 8.3 - Lucas Synthetic

Number of times a bottom one-third performer in any test (Ranking 7-10):
(Rank: # of times in bottom one-third - Oil)
Tie 1: 0 - AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil
Tie 1: 0 - Pennzoil Ultra™
Tie 1: 0 - Mobil 1™ Extended Performance
Tie 4: 1 - Quaker State Ultimate Durability™
Tie 4: 1 - Red Line High Performance Motor Oil
Tie 4: 1 - Valvoline SynPower® Full Synthetic Motor Oil
Tie 7: 2 - Castrol Edge® with Titanium Fluid Strength Technology®
Tie 7: 2 - Royal Purple High Performance Motor Oil
Tie 7: 2 - Lucas Synthetic
10. 3 - Petro-Canada SUPREME Synthetic™


Petroleum Quality Institute of America (PQIA) Tests for Total Base Number (ASTM D2896), Cold Cranking Viscosity (ASTM D5293), and NOACK Volatility Test (ASTM D5800).

Average Rankings:
(Rank: Avg Ranking - Oil)
1. 1.7 - Penzoil Ultra
2. 2.7 - Mobil 1 Advanced
3. 3.7 - Quaker State Ultimate
4. 4.7 - Schaeffers Supreme 9000
5. 5.7 - Castrol Edge Syntec
Tie 6. 7.0 - Amsoil OE
Tie 6. 7.0 - Royal Purple High Peformance
Tie 6. 7.0 - Valvoline Syn Power
9. 7.7 - Super Tech Full Synthetic
10. 8.0 - Lucas Synthetic

Number of times a bottom one-third performer in any test (Ranking 7-10):
(Rank: # of times in bottom one-third - Oil)
Tie 1. 0 - Penzoil Ultra
Tie 1. 0 - Mobil 1 Advanced
Tie 1. 0 - Quaker State Ultimate
Tie 4. 1 - Schaeffers Supreme 9000
Tie 4. 1 - Royal Purple High Peformance
Tie 6. 2 - Castrol Edge Syntec
Tie 6. 2 - Amsoil OE
Tie 6. 2 - Valvoline Syn Power
Tie 6. 2 - Super Tech Full Synthetic
Tie 6. 2 - Lucas Synthetic

RSR

What I can see from these so far is that the Amsoil promotional piece results appear to be intentionally bolstering Amsoil's product. They probably tested several of their oil formulas, picked the best, and then ran it against the competitor product against which they performed relatively the best. Essentially giving themselves an edge in their study and/or selecting the pieces of information that allow them to tell the story they want to tell...

Remember that Amsoil acquired their oil samples in Nov/Dec 2012, while PQIA sampled most in late January 2013 with some stragglers into April. But there shouldn't be significant oil formulation differences between these two time frames. And excepting primarily Amsoil, most of the oils jumped just a rank or two at most, so I personally find myself leaning towards the PQIA results over Amsoil.

It's generally accepted that the 4 ball wear test is more applicable to gear oils than engine: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...pics/1584948/1
Specifically, the Castrol Ti is designed to perform at high temps and to have maximum fluid strength/wear protection. Yet it ranks 9th out of 10, with just Mobil 1 Extended being worse... And Lucas placed 2nd behind Amsoil. I definitely think it's the truth that the 4 ball test promotes gear oil like oil bases over more modern synthetics.
More on Castrol Ti if curious -- it's specifically designed to provide maximum protection from metal on metal contact and from my research the science behind it appears to support it, despite the test (might be my own bias though making me want to believe the oil I'm running is a "best" option):


And the only other test not included in above comparison is just one of the 2 (out of five Amsoil) tests that didn't have Amsoil as #1. Here's how the oils ranked.

Thermo-Oxidation Engine Oil Simulation Test (TEOST, ASTM D6335)
1 - Castrol Edge® with Titanium Fluid Strength Technology®
2 - AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil
3 - Valvoline SynPower® Full Synthetic Motor Oil
4 - Lucas Synthetic
5 - Pennzoil Ultra™
6 - Royal Purple High Performance Motor Oil
7 - Quaker State Ultimate Durability™
8 - Petro-Canada SUPREME Synthetic™
9 - Mobil 1™ Extended Performance
10 - Red Line High Performance Motor Oil

Lastly, should add that the reason that I'm going with Ranking and Bottom Thirds for analysis is that I'm looking at broad strokes. I want the best oil across all conditions. That means eliminate the worst performers in any area and keep the average bests. Should you have special needs/requirements. Look at the tests and values and do your own comparison on those. It'll help guide you. Learn about the additives and see which package best meets your needs, etc.

So far, it looks like Pennzoil is a good enough at everything, but not always great, option. Valvoline SynPower showed up pretty strong too. Quaker State and Mobil 1 looked good in the PQIA study, while the Castrols either appeared to fall at the top or bottom of the tests, but not in the middle...

But I'll follow up with more from the PQIA study later this weekend and maybe combine some info from the two to help folks draw their own conclusions.

daved5150

iTrader: (1)

RSR, thank you for sharing this info. Great thread...I haven't read through everything yet....In response to what oil viscosity type others are using, I use dino 5w30 but 10w30 is in the manual. The reason I went to that was for the cold weather starts here in the Northeast. I would use a synthetic 0w30 but I have a rear main seal leak and won't get to it until I do a new clutch. So I don't want the synthetic to do it's job and clean around the seal and make it leak more. But synthetic is the way to go.

What always struck me as interesting were the guys who run super thick stuff like 20w40 or 20w50 but I guess it all depends on where you live. All I know is that the oil spec for my 96 F350 with 351 v8 was 5w30. When I tried 15w40 and when it got cold, the starts were way too noisy. I dumped that diesel oil real quick and put in 5w30 pronto and that fixed that.

I run Filtermags on all my oil filters now (have been for about 10 years) and even used them on the external spin on filter set up under the hood for the auto tranny in my Ford. They can be found here and bought here. All you have to do is measure the diameter of your oil filter to find which one to buy. I have the very first filter that I ran it on and in a word...wow. I will take a pic and post here. To me it's cheap insurance.

Let's keep the conversation going boys...

v_man

I used to run Amsoil in my motorcycles ... I was never comfortable with their claim that you only need to change Amsoil once a year .

I put 15k on a motorcycle one year , and 11k on the truck , so in one year between 26k miles on my truck and bike , I only need two oil changes ?



And especially my high reving bike ? It runs about 5,500 rpm at 75mph ...

daved5150

iTrader: (1)

First off V Man, very sweet 4Runner there sir. Looks more than capable...nice. What's your mileage like?

You have a valid concern there about the once a year oil change but in saying that, if you were to run a bypass filter and use the Filter Mag it could be done. Maybe not on the high revving bike but the 4Runner. I won't run an oil filter with out it. The old one from wife's now cash for Clunkers 99 Jeep Cherokee is on my 78 Cub Cadet 1250 for the hydro oil filter (rear end).

I'll finish this post later...I'm at work and the wife is here to pick me up with the Ford Escape( w/ Filter mag on) because my Yota is still in garage...

*EDIT*

Yea thats what I was using...Rotella T 15w40 in the Ford. Way too thick for my taste in cold weather...it took the oil awhile to flow into the heads and you could hear those lifters talking. gofar22r, just curious...why so thick in cold weather? Wouldn't 10w40 be better for cold starts? Unless you use a block heater. Just wondering...You're in Minnesota which is further north of where I'm at, I believe. Let me know. Thanks.

Anyone here run a Amsoil bypass set up on their vehicle? I've always wanted to buy it. I'd also run the Filter Mags on the filters too. And if you run extended drain intervals, you have to use oil analysis to check on the condition of the oil and level of wear in the engine. I have used the Black Stone Lab guys before for my Ford. I may do the bypass filter one day. The over the road big trucks use the bypass oil filter systems from companies like this. I've seen these guys advertised in Diesel Power mag.

gofar22r

15 40 rotella t for me and ph8a ford 351 filter fits 22r motors doing this for years

daved5150

iTrader: (1)

Here's the pics of the first Filtermag I used on the first filter from my Ford 351w:

http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/..._203638213.jpg

http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/..._203633359.jpg

http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/..._203627754.jpg

http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/..._203610862.jpg

v_man

Here's my 2013 fuel stats...

daved5150

iTrader: (1)

Not bad mileage for 37's...prob off by 1-3 mpg for a 4Runner with more modest tires. What app is that? Looks good.

I've always liked Red Line Oil's products. I first started using them in my Ford because I wanted a better oil in the truck. I've used their motor oil, gear oil and Dextron/Mercon ATF fluid. I'm not saying they are the best but I liked them. I like Red Line's MT90 which is a GL4 rated lube for syncronized "Yellow metal" manual trannys like my 5 speed G58 in my 4Runner. And I've used and are using Mobil1 gear lube in my diffs now because I had it sitting around from my wife's old Jeep. I've always had a hard time with Amsoil's way of doing business and their claims that they are the best and how they always seem to come out on top of all other oils. You try and do a search online for ________ vs. Amsoil and all that comes up are the dealer sites. I am not knocking them as a product but I don't like their selling philosophy. Not saying that other oil companies do their own "We beat all other competiting oils" advertising, but it just seems like Amsoil is in your face online. And I am not against trying them. I am looking into this oil, Brad Penn, as they are the longest running oil refinery in the country in Bradford, PA which is close to Western New York. I'm sure the posts will keep coming...

v_man

Fuelly.com

RustBucket

iTrader: (1)

Are you mixing up Amsoil OE and Signature Series in the comparisons? They are very different products.