Flash319

So I have a bit of a pull problem on my 92 runner. Checked my alignment and I have zero toe. I have 31" tires on rims that have a bit more offset then stock rims. The truck pulls to the left (center of the road), more on very sloped lanes and less on flat ones.

Has anyone had this problem and can I help this by putting a bit of toe-in on the drivers front wheel? I have new idler and outer tie rods. Everything is tight in the front end.

I searched but could not find any good advice on this.

88T4R

I would leave it to the pros, you don't want to ruin a set of tires and you might be able to get it close on your own, but I wouldn't chance it. If you wheel alot or plan on changing you suspension you should look at the firestone lifetime alignment.

Flash319

I won't take my trucks to anyone. 90% of the shops out there are scam/hack artists.

abecedarian

toe will do little to nothing to correct the problem.
caster and camber are the angles that affect pull.
you can adjust both yourself but if you don't know what you're doing, I don't recommend it.

Flash319

That is why I am asking. If anyone else has had this problem and what was done to correct it. If I adjust the camber to tip the top of the drivers tire in will this help with the road angle problem?

abecedarian

How are your tires wearing?

mmcpeck

You're never gonna get your alignment correct on your own. Alignment racks measure angles to the 100th of a degree, which is impossible to see with the human eye. On top of that they measure different things inline with the rear of the truck, even if the rear doesn't have any alignment adjustments.

There's not much to get scammed on if you take your truck into either a Firestone or a dealer for an alignment. They may make some reccomendations on something you may need, but if you don't think you need it then just tell them to you don't want it and to just do the alignment. The guy will punch his ticket for the job and do the alignment.

Plus I think the Gen 2 Runners use shims to adjust the camber, so you're never gonna get that correct without an alignment machine.

But if you take it somewhere and they say an alignment is $75, then they will do an alignment, it's not like your asking them to replace broken parts that they can scam you on, or you have engine issue that they can make up whatever problem and fix they want. If you need a tie rod or something they will let you know, but if you don't want it tell them to do it without it.

I used to do alignments and I never saw anybody in my shop do anything on an alignment other than just do it correctly so he could get paid for it.

Flash319

Don't really know yet. The tires that I bought with it were good except for one that was on the back that was worn on a very bad angle. They must have rotated it at some point. I ran some other tires on it for about 4 months but no uneven wear from that short time. Now I have new tires (new to the truck) on there. The pull is slight, like I could live with it, but I am getting sick of holding the wheel to the left all the time.

If I drive down a flat road with no hill in the middle, it drives straight with no pull. It could just be the offset of the rims but these tires and rims came off another Toy truck that I was driving and i did not see this problem on that truck.

abecedarian

so you say straight on flat roads and pulls up hill on crowned roads?
I'd be looking for worn suspension bushings (front and/or rear) before messing with an alignment.

Flash319

ya crowned road. That is what I thought to but I can't find anything wrong with the suspension. I will have to look again. It feels like a worn outer tie rod but both are brand new. When I put the brakes on it pulls that way to but I think that is air in the passenger side caliper.

abecedarian

bleed it and see if the problem goes away.

Flash319

Ya but the brakes are not causing the pull unless the drivers side has a stuck caliper which is possible......

mt_goat

I'm going to disagree with you on this. I've done my own alignment now with results better than some "pros" have done with all their fancy 3D racks. Yes they "measure angles to the 100th of a degree" but that doesn't mean they will take the time to adjust things perfect. My experences with pros are ANYTHING within the allowed specs is good enough for them. And if they can't easily adjust something into spec they may just say sorry I couldn't get that into spec. I've actually had an alignment tech tell me there wasn't any adjustment for caster on my truck.

The Toyota specs leave a big range for error in toe and camber and those can easily be adjusted in your driveway using DIY methods such as these: http://www.sdori.com/SDORI_4WD_Align...ions_Main.html

Caster is a little harder to get good without a rack, but I was able to get mine good by eyeballing the adjustment cams and some trial and error.

Flash319

[QUOTE=mt_goat;50957505]I'm going to disagree with you on this. I've done my own alignment now with results better than some "pros" have done with all their fancy 3D racks. Yes they "measure angles to the 100th of a degree" but that doesn't mean they will take the time to adjust things perfect. My experences with pros are ANYTHING within the allowed specs is good enough for them. And if they can't easily adjust something into spec they may just say sorry I couldn't get that into spec. I've actually had an alignment tech tell me there wasn't any adjustment for caster on my truck.


This is what I hate and why I don't go to "mechanics". The one time I took my wifes car for an alignment, I wanted to hit the "pro" it the head with a wrench. I watched him use a torch, heat the nut for the steering rack then with about as much force as it takes to open a bag of chips try to loosen it. Then he came to me and said that I need new ends and crap because he could not get it loose. I took it home, put on some vise grips and voila. Did a home alignment and the thing never drove so good.
Its their "day job" and that is the effort you get. Bunch of babies. If it is not new they don't want to touch it or they just lie to you.

space-junk

iTrader: (1)

well, not every truck need is, and most of them have already had it done, but maybe call the local stealership and see if the recall has been done of the steering relay rods... at least in my case it hasnt been done yet, and not only are they gonna replace that linkage, but they are also gonna do an alignment.. just an idea...

elripster

Zero toe is fine. It should be zero to very slightly toed in. Here are some instructions. Don't leave it to the pros, they are typically the lowest paid of the lot and not the brightest.

4X4 trucks pull on crowned roads always. Really all vehicles do, it's just much less noticeable on cars. Adding more toe to have a centered wheel on crowned roads is not really necessary but I guess you could do it. Keep in mind you increase scrubbing which will speed tire wear.

Frank

abecedarian

too much negative toe will cause a sense of 'numbness' to the steering response- you'll start to turn the steering wheel expecting the truck to veer whichever way but there will be a slight delay, and then it will cause a sense of over-reaction once the truck does start turning like you turned too far. And it will also cause the tires to drive across the road (any road for that matter) at an angle (since the tires are not parallel) increasing wear.
If you really want it tracking straight no matter what, make sure the rear end doesn't shift to the side on off-camber roads and give yourself a bit more positive caster.

elripster

All caster does is affect how much the wheel wants to return to center. You need some negative caster. It doesn't really matter how much. Our trucks have anywhere from none to a few degrees negative. The more negative, the more effort it will take to turn the wheel in a parking lot but the more straight line stability you will have. Our tires are so wide and our trucks slow enough that only a little negative caster is necessary and more won't hurt.

For a contrast, a high end benz that cruises the autobahn could have upwards of 10 degrees or more.

Caster is the least critical of the three alignment categories.

Frank

mt_goat

A difference in caster between the left and right (cross caster) can cause a pulling to one side.

http://autorepair.about.com/library/...bldef-086b.htm

swaycleveland

well gentlemen................. i must say this, i love you guys! sdori you ROCK! i just did my alignment yesterday and today! 2 days because i had dinner plans and only had time to get it close fine tuned it today!! the string works great! also i do suggest using the scribe a tire method also. the 2 methods together got me within a 1/16 total

on a side note guess whos got new bilstein HD's on all four corners !!!!