Ethanbarnard1

Anyone ever build their own long travel? I am thinking about extending and beefing up the stock A arms on my 92 Toyota Pickup 2wd. Got the truck for 500 bucks so im trying to do a SUPER budget build. I MIG weld, and am going to be caging it this weekend. But I'm a little foreign to the torsion bar set up, if i have read enough forums right, they basically are instead of coils right? So if i were to install coil overs then I could just ditch the torsion bars?

Also, i read a post back a few weeks and a guy was talking about how he used to extend stock A arms all the time, and he did it to a couple friends yotas. Cant find that thread anymore!!!!


My previous offroad fab knowledge is based mostly off of solid axle jeeps, i know everything there is to know about control arms, solid axles, and track bars but again, torsion and a arms are a little foreign to me!

Please dont post of all of the dangers and crap that comes with building my own suspension components, I am well aware of this, and safety is my number one priority! The roll cage will be OVER the top, TOO strong for such a light truck but that is how i want it. Please, i am just looking for more info about DIY long travels such as spindle upgrades, heims and uniball change outs (if that makes sense) and if anyone has any pictures of custom stock a arms being extended and beefed up id love to see! Thanks a lot guys, im sure I'll receive all the info i need!

Stuwy123

iTrader: (1)

Look at what the aftermarket kits change out and what they look like. Make your own conclusions from there.
I don't recommend it. You intend to drive this thing afterwards? Any weld or component breaks, you're in for a wild ride. I suggest crash gear, helmet, proper racing seat and 5 point harness.
Best of luck.
I'd say stick to what you know and put a solid axle under it.

Ethanbarnard1

I intend to have full crash gear of course, but how can it be that difficult? I mean it seems simple enough, total chaos kits look easy enough, why not just extend stock a arms.

slo6i

Its not so much the difficulty involved, as it is the liability involved. If you mig weld competently, and can ensure full pen, and are extremely confident in your welds, then I could see it.

Being a welder fabricator, this same thing has crossed my mind. That being said, im still nervous when I see frames welded on (not supposed to be as far as I know) and all of that.

There is alot of math involved in suspension geometry, and also a lot to consider. I have an e book you might be interested in specifically about it. On that note, if this is a vehicle just for you, and just for off road, effin go for it

Greg_Canada

You are not supposed to weld onto transport truck frames as they use special coatings. Vehicles frames are fine.

Ethanbarnard1

Yeah definitely would love to see the book, and YES! I bought the truck for 500 bucks cuz it was a good deal, its not gonna be a street driver at all so i figure might as well try!!!

Robert m

iTrader: (2)

there is a really good reason you dont see any fab shops just extending stock arms. but if you feel the need to try it yourself, then good luck and i hope you dont hurt anyone else.

Zpd426

check out this kit. I would call Nate from Blazeland. His kit is an extended stock lower arm which I run. Super strong.

http://www.blazeland.us/

edeslaur

I have the Blazeland on my 4Runner. It's great for what it is, and it's a good model to start your own mods from. Be sure you fully understand camber and caster, as well as Ackerman steering angles or you'll have a bump steering PITA on your hands.

Personally, it's going to get swapped out for a Total Chaose or JD Fab setup with big shocks; I still bottom out way too easily, but that is the fault of the shocks and springs used.

Ethanbarnard1

Yeah I've heard about the blaze land kits, and yea I know the geometry is going to be pretty tricky. One idea I have in my mind though, If I were to extend the stock arms, in a spot which they are straight, wouldnt that keep all of the stock angles though? Hard to explain over typing, but basically if I were to extend them right, i would be keeping the original angles of the a arms...

Someone chime in who's done something like this please! A picture is worth a thousand words!!!!!

Ethanbarnard1

Think you could show me some pictures of what you're running? Thanks!

SCToy

I really don't see the point of extenind the stock control arms. Better to build new arms, uograde pivots and do away with torsion bars all at once.

edeslaur

If you look at the Blazeland site, lots of pics and vids.

slo6i

Most likely not. The A-Arms could be mounted at 2 degrees off the horizon. Then, when your new lca comes up from a bump or change in the weight distribution of the vehicle, it will roll the spindle forward or back, then interact with your steering arm and cause toe, camber, and caster to change.
All in one motion. It really isnt as simple as just extending things, because the geometry can change so much with such a little difference.

As edeslaur said, it really does require a knowledge of how it all works together, before thinking about custom fabing stuff. I was going to try and draw it all for you to illustrate some of the simple concepts, but I suck at drawing, and it would probably just make it more difficult.

I used a program called aldogoo to demonstrate basically what im trying to say. follow the link and you will see a gallery

1st pic - Long travel under compression
2nd - long travel under more compression
3rd - normal geometry under compression
4th - under alot of compression
5th - normal geometry at rest
6th - long travel at rest

These are very very very basic examples, and dont reflect true geometry mesurements of ANY kind, but you can see that the vertical green piece changes ALOT as the suspension travels upward. and you can also see the difference between the two geometries and how it affects that piece.

http://imgur.com/a/8dVcj#pQDQK9R

Ethanbarnard1

Really the stock arms will just be guides, I will basically be going off of them as a reference. Torsion bars WILL be gone and coil overs in their place.


slo6i, awesome thanks for the resources! Im studying up on my steering/suspension/wheel geometry before I start the lifting process, as for now I have the cage halfway done! Keep the info comin guys, would really love to hear form someone who's done a custom long travel on a 2wd!

BlazeN8

Edeslaur,

Its quite possible that with TC or JD or who ever you would also bottom out with the entry level shock and T-bar options! The issue isn't with the control arm configuration its issues with spring rate and dampening. Do you have 25mm or 26mm T-bars? There is also 600M T-bars available if your needing a really firm spring. You can always upgrade with the some shock hoops and then run "big shocks" to tune the dampening. A coil over conversion or a coil over assist is available and may also be a way to dial in additional performance.

BlazeN8

Ethanbarnard1,

Build it! Figure it out..... if that is your thing. But if you consider all the time and effort you'll probably find its not a cost savings endeavor. The 1986-1995 4x4 control arms I use are beefy and allow modification. With the added plate, gussets, and reinforcement they become super strong.

I don't know how easy it will be to modify the 2wd design? It may make more sense to build new arms? But to determine geometry and mock it up modify the stock stuff makes sense. Keep us posted.

Ethanbarnard1

Glad to hear someone agrees about a stock angle mock up!! Thanks for all the advice and information guys.

Ethanbarnard1

Check this out guys, I think this will help me get a hang of things. It doesnt address some issues but it gives me an idea of some angles and what not!

http://www.racingaspirations.com/sus...try-calculator

SCToy

That calculator is helpful, but remember unless you're going to build a custom subframe and steering center link, then you're going to have to build around that, or you'll have a lot of bump steer.
You need to go flex the front of your truck and pay attention to how all the links and pivots interact. Also, that calclator only shows you one plane of movement. Its helpful for figuring out your camber curve, but its very primitive at best. And annoyingly hard to adjust one variable at a time.