kbpickens

I'm calling this one fixed; see #31. Timing was off. I still need to tweak the tuning, but behaviour has become acceptable.

I have an 89 pickup with the 22RE engine, 4x4, 5-speed manual, extended cab. I got it from my brother for free when he couldn't drive a stick any more (back injury). The odometer claims thirty-something-thousand, which I don't believe.

Important information: I am NOT a mechanic, nor a vehicle modder of any sort. I'm going to need pretty pictures and explanations of any acronyms.

Things I know for certain:

• The truck will start and run.
• The idle is set low (part of the troubleshooting prior to me getting it).
• It takes a block or more to get above 20mph.
• It will not exceed 45mph without a long downhill run.
• On flat ground, I can only do 40mph when in third gear (going into fourth drops enough power that it slows down - even when flooring the gas).

Things my brother told me before he gave it to me:

• 'It's the advance.'
• 'The distributor needs to be replaced to fix the advance.'

I know basically just enough to know what the distributor is. I looked at it, made the decision that the distributor shouldn't be the problem (it spins when it's told to, and it's spinning and firing cylinders). Then, I tracked the wires back to a little electronic box (I know the big one just carries the power for firing the cylinders). So, I asked my brother which part of the distributor needed to be replaced - 'the distributor itself' or 'the little electronic control box' - and he didn't know.

Any suggestions? Feel free to tell me if I missed out any important information.

Thanks in advance!

fsquared

Is it just a power loss or does it kick and buck going down the road? It could be a dozen or so small things or one.

SPARKS89

iTrader: (1)

It definitely sounds to me like your timing is WAY off. Go to Sears and buy a timing light and just read the instructions. It's really easy. If you can and you don't already have them, pick up some metric wrenches and a set of screwdrivers too. You're going to become very familiar with these. On the way back from Sears stop at Advance Auto or somewhere like that and buy a repair manual too. Read it. Learn it. Love it. (j/k, that's kinda weird.....)

You'll need to jump the E1 and TE1 terminals in your diagnosis box under the hood. A paperclip works good for that. It's on the passenger side. Your check engine light (CEL) should start blinking when you do that. Check timing according to your repair manual and come back with the results. If it's just the timing off then it's a simple adjustment. If the distributor needs to be replaced then that's a little more involved. It's still not hard, you just need to make sure you do it right.

Sorry, I don't have any pics to share with you right now. If you need more and a search doesn't show you what you need let me know and I'll post pics for you. I have the exact same truck.

snobdds

Google on youtube "how to set the timing on a 22re". There are some good videos on how to go about setting the timing.

Oh yea...it's your timing.

kbpickens

@fsquared: It runs pretty smooth.

@everyone else: I asked my brother if he has a timing light (he's a mechanic, but not close enough to be easy access to do work); he says that the last time he worked on it, the timing was correct. He's checking to see if he has a timing light that I can pick up later in the week (I'll try to check the timing this weekend - assuming that the children will let me).

fsquared

If the timing doesn't do it try a fuel filter. If it has the same amount of power or lack thereof across the entire rpm and speed range its probably a single point problem. Vacum, fuel filter, etc. Things that effect the engine all the time at the same rate. Just my 2c

SPARKS89

iTrader: (1)

Good suggestion, but it doesn't sound like a vacuum problem to me. If it was I would think it would die at idle if the vacuum leak was bad enough to cause problems like he's having. I've been wrong before.....

It's good to check the hoses tho so it's definitely worth doing!

thefishguy77

iTrader: (1)

If it a vacuums leak under the hood then spray carb cleaner or starter fluid on you vaccine lines quickly its not good for them and when you here the motor race you have a good idea where the leak is. If no motor. Erving then you are probably good.

thook

Better terminology help would matters, but what do you mean by "little electronic control box"? Can you be more specific on it's location.

Just because the distributor spins correctly doesn't mean it isn't bad. The air gap can be off or the pick up coil on the distributor can go bad. On this pick up coil are two specific "sensors" that generate signals to the ECU that the engine is spinning and what rate. When either of these signals are malfunctioning, the ECU cannot advance the timing correctly or at all. What I'm saying is though the crankshaft is spinning, the ECU doesn't "know" how fast and the injectors will not fire in sync with cylinders since the distributor signal controls injector pulsation. Hence the lack of acceleration and power. Theoretically, anyway. Might wanna test the system.

http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b.../4onvehicl.pdf

RAD4Runner

Lots of possibilities, but agree with checking timing. Also Throttle Position Sensor which is a related system. See 4 Crawler site for test/adjustment procedure.

SPARKS89

iTrader: (1)

How did your brother get the timing set right if he said the distrubutor was bad and the advance was off???

kbpickens

@thook: hopefully, I've managed to attach the image properly. The box is attached to the coil on top of the driver's side wheel well. There is another wiring harness going from the other side of that box that goes into a bundle that seems to go through the firewall into the cabin (didn't get a chance to take the picture until I was on the way to work 0500).

@sparks89: I don't know. My assumption is: since timing is read with it idling, there's no impact from whatever is causing the issue.

@rad4runner: added to my '(hopefully this) weekend check list'.

@thefishguy: to make sure I read that right: spritz some carb cleaner or starter fluid on the vacuum lines (not much, because it can do bad things to the lines); if the engine revs, there's a leak; is that correct?

Innocent Fool

My truck had symptoms very similar to yours. BEFORE you start tearing the truck apart follow these steps in this order:

- set the timing as described in previous posts
If its still low on power then the timing chain may have jumped a tooth:
- pull the valve cover
- set the crank at TDC (Top Dead Center)
- see if the mark on the cam lines up properly

My truck had low idle, ran smooth (no Check engine light (CEL)) and had low power. The chain jumped one tooth...

If it did jump a tooth:
- Remove the cam sprocket to get some slack on the chain
- Move the chain over on the sprocket in the correct direction and re-install.

Note: keep some tension on the chain at all times. You don't want to let it drop into the engine or give it so much slack it drops off the crank sprocket.

Once you re install the cam sprocket you will have to remove the distributor and move it over 1 tooth. make sure the rotar points directly at the post that connects to the spark plug wire going to the #1 cyl.

Rotate the crank a couple of times (By HAND) to make sure that nothing goes crunch.
Align the crank back to TDC and see if the cam mark is correct.

Search the forum if you need more information or better directions on how to install a timing chain.

If the chain jumped and the truck runs better then you need to find out WHY the chain jumped. You may need to replace the chain.

Let us know how you make out

kbpickens

@innocent fool: I'll look into that option after checking the previous ideas; getting to the timing chain is a bit more invasive and would require me to get the truck into a drive way somewhere (or my lawn), since I only have street parking.

thook

That's the ignition control module or igniter in your pic. If that goes bad, you don't go. So, that's not your problem.

Sparks raises a perfect question; how could the timing have been set "correctly" if the distributor is bad? Did he...your brother.. mean mechanical timing? As well, I don't see how ignition timing could be "correct" if the mechanical timing....or even the TPS adjustment....is off. And, it still runs pretty smooth? Dots are not connecting. It wouldn't cost you anything to check the mechanical timing; alignment of the cam and crankshaft. Finding an adequate area to work in would be good, though.

Right. So, if there is a vacuum leak, starter fluid will be sucked into the intake causing the engine to rev momentarily. If there's a substantial leak, however, it would be causing the engine to run pretty bad. A small leak will cause the engine to idle high, but not cause the severe lack of power and acceleration you're seeing. A long time ago, when I'd rebuilt the motor and installed a new timing kit, I didn't get the cold start injector sealed well on the plenum. And, that's no little leak! The engine didn't run very well, but I still had enough power to make it down the highway and climb hills quite well. Every time I had to slow down or come to a stop, though, the engine would idle way, way down and nearly die. Just to illustrate...

Lastly, someone brought up TPS. That is a possibility and definitely easy to check. Disconnect the TPS temporarily and see what happens. If the adjustment is suppressing performance, having the TPS signal out of the equation will help matters. Just make sure you clear the code you will code by disconnecting it. Pull the EFI fuse for a few minutes or disconnect the battery.

kbpickens

That's good.

When I popped the hood this morning to get the picture, I found out that one of the plug wires had come off the distributor in the past day or so (the performance has been bad for months), and I never felt it (I suspected there was a misfire based on the exhaust sound). The lack of power might be making any rough running unnoticeable (no power means no force to make it rough).

That makes me think there is no LARGE leak.

If I disconnect the TPS (and it's got issues), am I correct that you're saying the truck/engine would perform better?
EFI=Electronic Fuel Injector, right?

SPARKS89

iTrader: (1)

EFI=Electronic Fuel Injection. It's the whole system, not just one single injector.

When you unplug the TPS you should notice a change in idle. I don't remember if it will go up or down, but it will be a change you can hear. If it doesn't change then that's a solid symptom of a bad TPS. Anyway, unplug it and either move the throttle linkage with your hand or get in and rev it up some (like you're driving, not slamming it to the floor and letting off a bunch of times) and see how it does.

The fact that you had a plug wire unhooked and didn't even notice a difference is weird. Make sure you're getting good spark to all cylinders.

And tell me one thing: look at the adjustment bolt on the back side of the distributor. It sits in a groove so you can rotate the distributor one way or the other. Is it all the way to one end or the other of that groove or is it sitting somewhere in the middle?

big bear

Have you done a compression check ?

kbpickens

@sparks89 and thook: I pulled the connector off the TPS, pulled the EFI fuse, and actually drove it to see how it did (I'll try just revving it when I get a chance; I misremembered your instructions). The idle was substantially higher (not surprised since it was no longer being told to slow down [currently set about 500rpm - see original post]). Tried a steep-ish (~40*), but short, hill, and couldn't get it to go over 10mph (first gear, pedal down, and hoping it wouldn't die [it was running smooth, but had no 'oomph'] and roll back down into the highway behind me).

@big bear: no, I haven't done a compression test.

snobdds

It's your timing...you need to time it correctly. Remember, there is two types of timing...cam and ignition.

First, you need to remove your valve cover and check cam timing. Bring it to TDC on the compression stroke and make sure your marks are correct.

Then put the valve cover back on and insert your dizzy with the rotor pointed at 12:00 and it should rotate back to around 10:00.

The timing will be exactly on when the adjusting bolt is dead center of the adjustment range on the dizzy. Check you tube for a visual reference on how to do it if you get stuck. Your going to have to get your hands dirty to fix this.

Stop doing everything else...Set your timing first.