87 4runner 22re running rich
09-07-2011, 05:55 PM
#21
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Diagnosis complete. Will be fixing when I come back from AZ. So what I found was my fuel pressure regulator was shot and I had a leaky #4 fuel injector. I replaced both. Then since I rebuilt low end completely I blew the #4 vale seal as well as cracked the valve guide. Understandable as the low end is new and head is original. Original low end had 3 out of 4 pistons cracked. #4 was the worse and fell apart on the way out of the cylinder. 4 only had 25 pounds of compression. Now with new block, 4 new pistons and new crank along with bearings and rings and bushings I'm running 160 pounds at every hole. Head simply couldnt handle the pressure. Will be getting NEW Head from Jays Automotive Machine shop out of Everett Washington. All rebuild work was done by myself and I have learned considerably from everyone here. Thanks for the help. Will be posting some pics soon.
09-29-2011, 10:18 AM
#23
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I recently resurrected my 87 4Runner from the junk yard (my backyard). I began to have problems some time ago with engine rattling after a low end rebuild so I got a bit discouraged and laid her to rest for a while. The rattle ended up being that the cylinder head had been machined past its tolerance so the tensioner was not able to compensate for the "long" chain. Anyways, after a new cylinder head and putting everything back together, one of the old problems continues; POS is very hard to start when cold. I'm in Arizona so "cold" is 80F. I could only crank it for a few seconds and if it doesn't start, I need to start over. The other problem is that this thing is also running very rich. I had about 1/8 inch of sooth in the intake.
I began testing components idividually and they all read fine per a 88 FSM (can't find anything on 87 online). When testing the system at the ECU things began to get very confusing. TPS readings are out of tolerance, CTS readings are out, and I cannot get power to the Cold Start Injector. The injector reading is fine and there is power going to it with ign on ST. CTI to Injector timing switch wiring is fine. The very odd thing is that the wire that should go from the ECU to the CSI goes to the check connector and the other side of the CSI goes to a pin in the ECU for the brake light switch. Confusing?? FSM tells says this configuration is for a 22R-TE but engine wiring matches 22R-EC. Does anyone know if the 88 and 87 ECUs had different wiring schemes?
After looking at the differences I see why it would run rich as the VSV, CSI, HAC and other circuits would not be working and the ECU may get the wrong info. MY ECU has a PN of 89661-35070. I just don't know if the same ECU is compatible with both engine types. I hope I could just move some wires around and make it work but it may end up taking an act of God or a really big hammer.
I began testing components idividually and they all read fine per a 88 FSM (can't find anything on 87 online). When testing the system at the ECU things began to get very confusing. TPS readings are out of tolerance, CTS readings are out, and I cannot get power to the Cold Start Injector. The injector reading is fine and there is power going to it with ign on ST. CTI to Injector timing switch wiring is fine. The very odd thing is that the wire that should go from the ECU to the CSI goes to the check connector and the other side of the CSI goes to a pin in the ECU for the brake light switch. Confusing?? FSM tells says this configuration is for a 22R-TE but engine wiring matches 22R-EC. Does anyone know if the 88 and 87 ECUs had different wiring schemes?
After looking at the differences I see why it would run rich as the VSV, CSI, HAC and other circuits would not be working and the ECU may get the wrong info. MY ECU has a PN of 89661-35070. I just don't know if the same ECU is compatible with both engine types. I hope I could just move some wires around and make it work but it may end up taking an act of God or a really big hammer.
10-01-2011, 04:55 PM
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My truck throws 22r-te codes too. I don't think that has anything to do with it. Check your COR. It's right above your ecu. It's a cylinder plug. Check the Dan for resistance and voltage tests. maybe that has something to do with it. And even if your cold start doesbt work the truck still should turn over ecentually. These 22re's only send fuel when cranking. So u would have to crank on it for a while. Enough to prime and send fuel down the 4 injectors.
10-02-2011, 09:28 AM
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Well I have the FSM for 89 and 85 but not 87 specific. Most of the components are the same. I did find out that I have a mixture of parts in my Runner. My throttle body and air valve are from an 89. I don't have the electrical air valve that should be in my vehicle. That explains the loose connector by the intake. I guess that is not a big issue as long as it is working OK; I did pass emissions. I did find I have a faulty thermal time switch. Ohms tests are fine but switch does not provide sufficient ground under load. I scored a couple of used units from the junk yard yesterday. Budget is tight.
I can crank the engine until the battery dies and will not start. I checked voltage to FP while cranking and voltage is there continuously. Has to be something simple and stupid but just can't find it yet. I will test or change the Fuel Pressure Regulator. This may be causing the engine to flood. I will test away.
Thanks.
I can crank the engine until the battery dies and will not start. I checked voltage to FP while cranking and voltage is there continuously. Has to be something simple and stupid but just can't find it yet. I will test or change the Fuel Pressure Regulator. This may be causing the engine to flood. I will test away.
Thanks.
10-02-2011, 10:19 AM
#27
I recently resurrected my 87 4Runner from the junk yard (my backyard). I began to have problems some time ago with engine rattling after a low end rebuild so I got a bit discouraged and laid her to rest for a while. The rattle ended up being that the cylinder head had been machined past its tolerance so the tensioner was not able to compensate for the "long" chain. Anyways, after a new cylinder head and putting everything back together, one of the old problems continues; POS is very hard to start when cold. I'm in Arizona so "cold" is 80F. I could only crank it for a few seconds and if it doesn't start, I need to start over. The other problem is that this thing is also running very rich. I had about 1/8 inch of sooth in the intake.
I began testing components idividually and they all read fine per a 88 FSM (can't find anything on 87 online). When testing the system at the ECU things began to get very confusing. TPS readings are out of tolerance, CTS readings are out, and I cannot get power to the Cold Start Injector. The injector reading is fine and there is power going to it with ign on ST. CTI to Injector timing switch wiring is fine. The very odd thing is that the wire that should go from the ECU to the CSI goes to the check connector and the other side of the CSI goes to a pin in the ECU for the brake light switch. Confusing?? FSM tells says this configuration is for a 22R-TE but engine wiring matches 22R-EC. Does anyone know if the 88 and 87 ECUs had different wiring schemes?
After looking at the differences I see why it would run rich as the VSV, CSI, HAC and other circuits would not be working and the ECU may get the wrong info. MY ECU has a PN of 89661-35070. I just don't know if the same ECU is compatible with both engine types. I hope I could just move some wires around and make it work but it may end up taking an act of God or a really big hammer.
I began testing components idividually and they all read fine per a 88 FSM (can't find anything on 87 online). When testing the system at the ECU things began to get very confusing. TPS readings are out of tolerance, CTS readings are out, and I cannot get power to the Cold Start Injector. The injector reading is fine and there is power going to it with ign on ST. CTI to Injector timing switch wiring is fine. The very odd thing is that the wire that should go from the ECU to the CSI goes to the check connector and the other side of the CSI goes to a pin in the ECU for the brake light switch. Confusing?? FSM tells says this configuration is for a 22R-TE but engine wiring matches 22R-EC. Does anyone know if the 88 and 87 ECUs had different wiring schemes?
After looking at the differences I see why it would run rich as the VSV, CSI, HAC and other circuits would not be working and the ECU may get the wrong info. MY ECU has a PN of 89661-35070. I just don't know if the same ECU is compatible with both engine types. I hope I could just move some wires around and make it work but it may end up taking an act of God or a really big hammer.
Well I have the FSM for 89 and 85 but not 87 specific. Most of the components are the same. I did find out that I have a mixture of parts in my Runner. My throttle body and air valve are from an 89. I don't have the electrical air valve that should be in my vehicle. That explains the loose connector by the intake. I guess that is not a big issue as long as it is working OK; I did pass emissions. I did find I have a faulty thermal time switch. Ohms tests are fine but switch does not provide sufficient ground under load. I scored a couple of used units from the junk yard yesterday. Budget is tight.
I can crank the engine until the battery dies and will not start. I checked voltage to FP while cranking and voltage is there continuously. Has to be something simple and stupid but just can't find it yet. I will test or change the Fuel Pressure Regulator. This may be causing the engine to flood. I will test away.
Thanks.
I can crank the engine until the battery dies and will not start. I checked voltage to FP while cranking and voltage is there continuously. Has to be something simple and stupid but just can't find it yet. I will test or change the Fuel Pressure Regulator. This may be causing the engine to flood. I will test away.
Thanks.
So, you know you're flooding?(Because of all the soot?) Plugs are soaked? Hmmmmm.
The BK pin and injector relationship is relative to 'Injector Cut'.. It cuts flow to the injectors, temporarily/every couple seconds, while the RPM's are over 1000 and the brake is applied, ... to aid in slowing down the rig and prevent fuel from dumping in while you're trying to brake.
88 and 87 systems are a lil different in a couple things, AS I REMEMBER, lol... and I've had the same cross referencing to do with the Haynes, Chiltons, etc., because 'Injector Resistance' is different and I BELIEVE that the 02 and Knock Sensor Readings are different as well(??). Reading the wiring from ECU to CSI that is going to Brake pin is a lil confusing, indeed..... I printed out and saved to photobucket TONS of pages of my buddies 87 FSM............ Here's the link, so you can compare... Just go through them from the end of the pages, backwards, as that's how photobucket loads, ya know?...... Start on the last page, in other words....>>>
http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/e...vice%20Manual/
Before getting into any more depth on testing.... It might be best to rule out if certain things 'play well together', considering you're running different year components. 89 is DEFINITELY different than 87, in a few ways. Not sure elsewhere, but in CA, especially, the 88.5 and 89 models had 2 - 02 SENSORS. When I had what I THOUGHT was an 87 ECU from a buddy, just trying ANYTHING to chase down my dramatic miss and horrible mileage, I ended up realizing that it was indeed an 88.5 - 89 ECU, and that's why it was throwing 02 and Knock Sensor Codes......
Yeah, look through the 87 FSM-Fuel Section and start comparing to what you have(I have that 88 fsm as well).... Here's an example of 87 ECU-Pin layout..........(These pics of pages are from page 5 in my photobucket album, top of the page)..>>>
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 10-02-2011 at 10:22 AM.
10-03-2011, 09:36 PM
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Chef,
First of all thanks for being so helpful. I've seen your name all over this forum helping not just trying to get help.
I spent all day Sunday going through all the sensors again and through both manuals to figure out how to make things play well together.
Here is a quick summary of my setup:
*87 4runner with 87 ECU, O2 sensor, injectors, TPS, cold start injector and timing switch.
*89 air valve, throttle body, reed valve, exhaust, resonator and air intake.
I managed to get everything working so far (cross my fingers) by removing the 89 injector location and moving it to the exh. manifold. Drilling into the plenum wall was a bit tricky but I did not have the cash to buy another manifold at the time.
The only noticeable difference between the 87 and 89 was the IAC valve. It seems that the 89 system is doing mechanically the same job as the electronic valve unless I am missing something.
Here is what I found out Sunday that I believe was giving me the problems:
TPS had an intermittent fault. I had a dead spot and the infinite reading spot was so small that made setting it a nightmare. Replace it with a new unit.
*CSI timing switch- resistance readings were OK but it would not functionally work. The ground path to the switch would open under load. This was not allowing my CSI to work. I gout a couple of units at the junk yard for $10 and both tested fine. Sure beats the $160 price tag for each!
* IAC valve was not closing when warm. I took it apart and thoroughly cleaned it and put it back together. I did not find a thrust nut setting anywhere so I just warmed it up and set it where it would fully close when warm and open cold.
I put it all together and started her up late at night and she purred beautiful. Ok, it was not that easy; I had previously closed the idle set screw all the way in since the air valve was not working. This would not let her maintain idle. I remembered this and opened it. She immediately came back to life. I set the idle to spec after she warmed up. I was a bit worried that it would give me problems again as it did in the past when she was cold but this morning she started right up. I risked it and decided to drive her to work. Not my smartest move but I need to be optimistic. She drove very nice. I will fill her up and see how many miles a get per gallon.
Things pending: New radiator as mine has a small leak and some bent tubes, some sheet metal - baseball-sized hail in Phoenix almost killed me and it sure injured my baby. She has new windows, mirrors, and lights.
I am debating on a solid axle swap. She is now my daily driver and don't know if I want to disable her for a while. I have an offer for an axle from an 81 pickup for only $200 so it is tempting.
I hope this helps someone with similar issues. It is impressive what you learn about a vehicle when you troubleshoot it.
Will send an update on how she is working. Thanks again.
First of all thanks for being so helpful. I've seen your name all over this forum helping not just trying to get help.
I spent all day Sunday going through all the sensors again and through both manuals to figure out how to make things play well together.
Here is a quick summary of my setup:
*87 4runner with 87 ECU, O2 sensor, injectors, TPS, cold start injector and timing switch.
*89 air valve, throttle body, reed valve, exhaust, resonator and air intake.
I managed to get everything working so far (cross my fingers) by removing the 89 injector location and moving it to the exh. manifold. Drilling into the plenum wall was a bit tricky but I did not have the cash to buy another manifold at the time.
The only noticeable difference between the 87 and 89 was the IAC valve. It seems that the 89 system is doing mechanically the same job as the electronic valve unless I am missing something.
Here is what I found out Sunday that I believe was giving me the problems:
TPS had an intermittent fault. I had a dead spot and the infinite reading spot was so small that made setting it a nightmare. Replace it with a new unit.
*CSI timing switch- resistance readings were OK but it would not functionally work. The ground path to the switch would open under load. This was not allowing my CSI to work. I gout a couple of units at the junk yard for $10 and both tested fine. Sure beats the $160 price tag for each!
* IAC valve was not closing when warm. I took it apart and thoroughly cleaned it and put it back together. I did not find a thrust nut setting anywhere so I just warmed it up and set it where it would fully close when warm and open cold.
I put it all together and started her up late at night and she purred beautiful. Ok, it was not that easy; I had previously closed the idle set screw all the way in since the air valve was not working. This would not let her maintain idle. I remembered this and opened it. She immediately came back to life. I set the idle to spec after she warmed up. I was a bit worried that it would give me problems again as it did in the past when she was cold but this morning she started right up. I risked it and decided to drive her to work. Not my smartest move but I need to be optimistic. She drove very nice. I will fill her up and see how many miles a get per gallon.
Things pending: New radiator as mine has a small leak and some bent tubes, some sheet metal - baseball-sized hail in Phoenix almost killed me and it sure injured my baby. She has new windows, mirrors, and lights.
I am debating on a solid axle swap. She is now my daily driver and don't know if I want to disable her for a while. I have an offer for an axle from an 81 pickup for only $200 so it is tempting.
I hope this helps someone with similar issues. It is impressive what you learn about a vehicle when you troubleshoot it.
Will send an update on how she is working. Thanks again.
10-03-2011, 10:37 PM
#29
That is EXCELLENT NEWS! Way to go, Andy! Glad I could be of help... But heck, even if my 'guess' is not what the end diagnosis result is... I figure, 'if more people would throw out their experiences, it causes people to dig deeper and start seeing exactly how these things operate.... and then, it's all a matter of my favorite abbreviation, 'P.O.E.'!!!! Process of Elimination! lol.
Great news, ...... and yeah, I've debated the SAS... but in the '3G' range, I think the 1UZ swap will bring me a lot more joy! lol. I get into plenty of good stuff with my IFS, and yet, I GET IT, I understand and VERY MUCH admire that 'mod/swap/upgrade for many'... For me, it's not 'needed'(plus I just restored and upgraded my IFS, ..so no way, hahaha), ... so at this point, I'll stick with getting a Lexus V8 in this thing, eventually. But heck,....that could be another 100K! hahaha.... So who knows. I'm just glad it runs, and I think I'll get my seats and then deck done and go from there!
lol
HAVE FUN, ANDY, and seriously>>>>>>>... CONGRATZ! You must be stoked!
Great news, ...... and yeah, I've debated the SAS... but in the '3G' range, I think the 1UZ swap will bring me a lot more joy! lol. I get into plenty of good stuff with my IFS, and yet, I GET IT, I understand and VERY MUCH admire that 'mod/swap/upgrade for many'... For me, it's not 'needed'(plus I just restored and upgraded my IFS, ..so no way, hahaha), ... so at this point, I'll stick with getting a Lexus V8 in this thing, eventually. But heck,....that could be another 100K! hahaha.... So who knows. I'm just glad it runs, and I think I'll get my seats and then deck done and go from there!
lolHAVE FUN, ANDY, and seriously>>>>>>>... CONGRATZ! You must be stoked!
10-04-2011, 06:40 AM
#30
My 1986 FSM shows the CSI having nothing to do with the ECU.... The CSI and Time switch are on a completely independant circuit and only receive power when the ign switch is in the "start" position....
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