cheapskate

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NOTE: I ORIGINALLY POSTED HERE LOOKING FOR ADVICE ON IDENTIFYING WHAT I NOW KNOW TO BE THE MANUAL TRANSMISSION FILL AND DRAIN PLUGS ON MY 1989 4RUNNER.

I CHANGED THE TITLE ON THIS POST TO BETTER REFLECT THE CURRENT SITUATION; HOWEVER I'M LEAVING THE WHOLE POST UP AS IT ORIGINALLY UNFOLDED.

LUCKILY, I TOOK PICS OF EVERYTHING FOR TOTALLY DIFFERENT REASONS...I WAS GOING TO DO A WRITE UP ON THE PROCESS FOR THE TECH FORUM...GLAD I DID.

PLEASE READ THE WHOLE THING AND GIVE ME YOUR IDEAS ON HOW TO HANDLE IT CORRECTLY.
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ORIGINALLY POSTED 11/08/09:

I have a 1989 4Runner w/the 3.0 V6 running a manual 5-speed transmission. I've got a substantial leak coming from a strange looking hollow-faced bolt with what looks like a nail-head that appears to be overly tight against a thin aluminum washer at an inlet on the passenger side of the transmission.

My first question is what's this fluid?

Next, how do I stop it from draining out and ruining my transmission?

Most important, what do I need to do to actually fix it?

I have taken some pics so you guys can take a look.

Please help!

Tubbyfatty

Go get 2 new bolts, drain and fill, take off the fill bolt, then take off the drain bolt, drain the fluid, put new bolts and washers on, fill it back up, done.

I think all the bolts are supposed to look like that...i could be wrong tho

https://www.yotatech.com/51214405-post34.html. that was mine...

cheapskate

is the bolt in the pics the drain or the fill bolt?

more importantly, where's the other bolt that needs to come off going to be located?

and...

anybody know the size of the bolts and washers needed? my toyota dealer never seems to be able to get me anything without part numbers/numbers...

I'm worried about driving it low on fluid, it's lost a decent sized puddle over the pasty few days...is it reasonably safe to drive to the dealership or parts store or would that be like driving an engine without enough oil or coolant? I don't want to blow out the transmission when the fix seems to be a pretty straight forward procedure.

Tubbyfatty

That was the fill. When i got my new fill bolt from toyota i just said "i need a transmission fill bolt for a 94 4 runner 5spd" and he got one for me. Ill see if i can find the part number for ya in my box o truck papers.

The fill is on the driver side up a little higher.

Jay351

Pretty sure the fill is on the drivers side, a little higher up on the trans.. or i might be trippin'

cheapskate

so this is the drain hole bolt...it's located near the bottom of the transmission, oil leaking...ok, makes sense.

found the fill bolt/hole about halfway up and a couple inches forward on the driver side.

both bolts appear to have decent faces, so I should be able to get them off pretty easily.

while I don't think the transmission needs new fluid, I figure I'll drain it and replace with fresh gear oil just the same. The FSM calls for 3.2 quarts of SAE 75W-90, so that's what I'll be using.

plan:
buy 4 quarts gear oil
buy two brand new fill/drain bolts, washers
remove fill bolt/washer
remove drain bolt/washer, let it drain
replace drain bolt/washer with new
fill with gear oil until it just starts over-flowing from the fill hole
replace fill bolt/washer with new
double check drain/fill for any leaks
take a little drive, double check for leaks

tubby & jay, thanks for your input, you've totally set me on the right path here.

THANK YOU!

Tubbyfatty

Make sure you use either the open end of the wrench or a 6 point side. It grips it better. Its a 24mm if you didnt know.

Sounds like a good plan. If it still leaks give it an extra turn or so. Make sure you get gear oil that is GL-4. I use MT 90 in my tranny. Its a full synthetic so its like $10 a qt. But whatever you get, make sure its GL4, GL5 is too slippery.

cheapskate

I went and picked up everything today...opt'd for synthetic blend 75W-90...Toyota dealer had a pair for less than $12 out the door w/washers.

All set, went ahead and pre-sprayed the bolts with PB, let it set, tapped, sprayed again, let it set...20-min later, I try to loosen up the fill bolt...no movement whatsoever...

My 24mm socket is 12 point and it's slipping the second I get any meat on it. No room for my impact, so I'm thinking I'll soak it good overnight.

I can see how the head of tubby's was so tore up...these bolts are flimsy and don't look like they'd take much to round over.

I am pretty sure if I had a 24mm open end wrench I could BFH these puppies right off. Next step will be to go buy the wrench. I'll post whatever results I come up with.

RustBucket

iTrader: (1)

Heating the surrounding area with a torch has given me good results in this situation. Steel bolt in an aluminum housing = different thermal expansion.

Tubbyfatty

I finally got mine off by going to Valvoline instant oil change. They took some vise grips and tightened them with a pipe wrench.

If you have one of those around ya, you could try that. Dont try to move it slowly, try some quick moves, like have someone hold it while you put your foot on it. I had to do that with my diff bolt.

btw, those bolts are aluminum...i think. I know mine was.

PCE91V64x4

I use a 6 pt socket out of an impact wrench set. If you have to go buy one socket the whole set at Harbor Freight is probably just a few dollars more.

cheapskate

I decided I'd spend enough time and money trying to get these bolts taken care of, so I bit the bullet and took the truck in to the Toyota dealership.

They charged me $59 to remove the old bolts, put the Toyota bolts and washers in and fill the transmission with 80/90 gear oil.

Took the truck home last night, snapped a couple pics of the work to post up here on the site...take a closer look and can see that the washer is in crooked...on side is pushed in further than the other by about half the washers thickness.

I go back to the Toyota dealership this afternoon around 2pm...at 6pm, they come tell me that the transmission case is cracked, they can't supply one because they are no longer made and if I go to a junkyard and get a new case they'll put it in for $850.

WTF!

Now, mind you, they delivered the vehicle to me the night before and all was well. No issues with the bolts, washers or any crack in the case. They even tried to sell me the trim fasteners for the side air vents...not a word that anything had been or gone wrong.
So I go out to the truck, look at it on the rack (after sitting in the waiting room for 4hrs)...the mechanic shows me the "crack" at an angle I can't really see from...so with his light I look around from the side I took the pictures you see in my original post...only now I see a crack running from the edge of the face of the washer all the way out and through the outer face of the transmission housing about a 1/4".

I tell the guy, there was no crack there when I brought this in yesterday and you're the only ones to have touched the truck since. The guy is looking nervous at this point. He tells me he's been doing this for 10yrs and would only tighten the drain plug to 12lbs of torque per the Toyota specs.
What the mechanic does not know is that I took pics of newly installed bolts last night to post here on the site. There was no crack as of last night, I have the before the transmission service, after the transmission service and now the second transmission service/cracked transmission case....pics to prove it.

Not only was there no crack, but I took the pics to show how the dealer installed the drain plug washer crooked...they show the crooked washer and the leak even worse than before I took it in.
I told the service rep and the mechanic that I did not want to get anyone in any kind of trouble here, but that the crack was new and so long as they could come up with a way to fix it outside of going to management I was ok.

The mechanic said he'd drain the transmission, let it sit overnight, rough up the area and put JB Weld on it. He said he could never get away with that at the dealer, but if it was him that's what he'd do in his own driveway. He also said the right way to fix it would be to hit it with a TIG welder and that would fix it for sure. They said they don't have a TIG at the dealership, but if I really wanted to fix it, that's the way to go.

After four hours in the waiting room, to find out they didn't really actually do anything, I figured the wait was to wear me down in order to get a reaction or to get me to just accept the situation...they do it when you buy a car, why not in the service department...

So I tell them I'll give it an honest try with the JB Weld that I don't want to get anyone jacked up over an honest mistake and that based on that we could go from there

When I'm checking out, the service rep shows up and asks me to sign an invoice. He tells me that the service manager is aware of the situation and that he has authorized the mechanic to perform the JB weld repair and that I'd only have to pay about an hour shop time. I told him that I would consider the JB weld a good option, but that I did not feel I should be the one to pay for shop time when I was not the one that damaged the housing.

So he hands me the invoice and leaves to talk to the service manager. While he's gone, I read the invoice and it's notated, "THE TRANS WAS OVER TIGHTEN AND THE FRONT CASE WAS DAMAGE. THIS WAS DAMAGE BEFORE TECH WORKED ON IT. THE CUSTOMER WANTED THE DRAIN PLUGS LOOSEN SO HE COULD DRAIN HIS OWN TRANS. THIS WAS DUE THE "FACT" THAT THE DRAIN PLUGS WERE ROUNDED OFF AND OVER TORQ."

Now, I'm getting pissed. I'm hungry, tired and now they're telling outright lies. I wasn't asked to sign any invoice the night before, or when I bought the bolts the day before that. However, now he's telling me that I've got to sign in order release the keys from service to get the car and go home. I felt like they wanted me to go off in the showroom at that point...so rather than take the bait; I calmly underlined the comments on the invoice that I disagree with, noting that there was "no damage at the time of service" and "no rounded off bolts". I then initialed and had the service rep initial my comments and give me a copy. He did and I left.

Now, a simple bolt has turned into a cracked transmission case, plus $850 to install a new one…that…oh, by the way… I've got to go find in a junkyard and pay for out of my own pocket!

I’m not going to just accept that they screwed up my truck and caused a leak that was dripping a few drops a week on the driveway and turned it into a 6-8” puddle in just the past few hours.

I need real advice now.

What is the best way to go after this?

cheapskate

Before

cheapskate

After Transmission Service - note the third pic, the washer is clearly slanted

cheapskate

After Second Service, Cracked Transmission Case

austinmacry

If it was me I would show the copies of the evidence and then threaten to sue. They screwed up and they should fix it. They then tried to get around you and you still acted nicely and appropriately. They owe you!

Gordo

What dealer did you take it to? I live in Peoria also. I want to make sure they don't get my business. I only buy parts from the Dealer if I can't get them anywhere else.

cheapskate

All I can say is UNBELIEVABLE.

I took the pics, invoices everything in, showed them to the Service Manager. He looked at the pics, said the washer wasn't crooked, the leak was there before I took it in and therefore the case was cracked before I had it serviced...he proceeded to talk in circles, ignored everything said and finally told me to "take my pictures and get out","we're not fixing your transmission case".

I was polite up until he got disrespectful.

When he told me to take my pictures and get out, I was offended, but half way expected it...I stood up to collect my papers and was actually ready to leave when he smirked at me...I was cool up until then. Like a kid with a stick poking a pit bull in the eye through a fence...it was cowardly, passive agressive, worm like. Regretfully, I let the poke get to me and I got loud and cursed him up good. Honestly though, I didn't say anything I didn't mean, I didn't threaten him personally or do anything physical, so while I figure I can live with my "outburst", I do regret letting this lowlife get to me...especially right there at the very end.

Just the same, I let him know that I see him as a complete scumbag, I said I was not going to let this go and that he would be held accountable for the shops neglegance and what I consider fraud on their part for lying and trying to cover it up.

I'm setting an appointment with a lawyer through my wife's company's legal people tomorrow to see what we need to do. I don't know how often this happens or how many people they've deceived like this, but I'm not going to go away like most probably do. It was that smirk that pushed me and I'm going to push back.

All I wanted was to fix a little leak correctly. $75 later, I've cussed more tonight than in 5yrs, got gear oil stains all over my garage and driveway (that showed up AFTER I had a Toyota Dealership work on the truck!) and the thought of spending time and money on a damn lawyer makes me sick to my stomach. But what they've done here after the fact is unacceptable to me. A mistake I can forgive, lies and taunting in response to a mistake...that I won't.

cheapskate

oh, by the way. when the sm said the whole case would have to be replaced to fix it correctly and that they would not do that, I did tell them I didn't feel that was necessary and all I wanted was the leak fixed. I told him a quick tig weld to the aluminum would likely do the trick. He offered to have JB weld put on but I would have to pay $100 to do it. You heard right people, the solution is to JB weld my transmission for $100...take it or leave it...going once, going twice...

Cal01

wow! so glad you are fighting back. i can't stand this kind of BS. hopefully when you win, smirk back at his in ass. if you dont win in shoot him. the end.