proeliumfessus

I've used the search extensively, and it blows me away how often it takes an owner a year or longer to track down and fix issues with this d*&m engine. Seriously, I want to rip this thing out and throw it in a car crusher and watch it slowly smash its guts out- no engine has kicked my ass like these stupid things. Ok ok bitterness aside, I'll get off my soapbox.

This is my second time breaking timing and having performance issues with the vze. The first time was my cousin's 91 pickup. I aligned the marks and when it was all back together, it had a miss at 1900 that would cause it to rev then fall, then rev and fall, all while holding the pedal still in that certain spot. I did remove the tps (cant remember why), and later learned that they have to be adjusted precisely with the fsm using a feeler guage. In my gut though, I thought maybe I screwed up the belt timing... because thats what it sounded like- a bad timing issue. Anyway, that was my first experience, and I only tell you about it because here I am again second guessing my belt timing, on yet another vze.

So a friend of mine blows his head gaskets on his 4runner. I break it all down and take them in to get resurfaced. I time it per the marks on the belt and marks on the pulleys, and the fsm (it was a new belt, water pump, tensioner, idler, and fan bracket). I bring the no 1 piston to tdc and make sure the rotor is pointing directly at the no 1 spark plug post in the distributor cap. Put it all back together and the engine starts right up, and runs smooth I say to my self, "well, my cousins truck must have had something else wrong with it, I guess I can rule out a mistake in my timing it." So I'm picking up the tools, the engine still running, and it enters closed loop... begins to run like CRAP. Great. Rough idle, and when you put it in gear, it darn near dies. Put the timing light on it and its like at 50 degrees advance! I mean the timing mark on the crank is literally like 1.5-2 inches past the 15 degree mark on the timing cover. I followed the fsm when installing the belt but today I noticed that I didnt install the distributor per the fsm. I thought wow, maybe thats what is causing the timing mark to be so far off. So I align the marks on the distributor and put it in exactly per the fsm... went to start it and it wouldnt start... had to advance the dizzy to the max to get it to start. I put the light on it and the timing mark is even FURTHER off now- 3.5-4 inches advanced of 15 degrees! also I noticed the timing mark is NOT steady, it jumps as much as 10 degrees in the retard direction every few seconds or so, and even when its not jumping the 10 degrees, its constantly jumping around 1-3 degrees. Also I noticed that jumpering the te1 and e1 pins has no affect whatsoever on this vehicle's timing.

So in short:
Smooth idle when cold
Rough idle in closed loop
Wants to die in gear at a stop
Timing light shows the mark waaaaaay in advance
Timing mark jumps around under the timing light
Verified timing belt didnt jump a tooth (tore down the front of the engine and manually verified)
Jumpering te1 and e1 has no affect
The only way to get the engine to run even marginally well, is to retard the distributer 1 tooth, which brings the timing mark within an inch or two of the 15 degree mark on the timing mark on the cover.

And also, when you gas the engine, the timing mark jumps waaay in the retarded direction (to the tune of 2 inches) then jumps an inch or two in the advance direction before falling back to its original point at idle. Does this sound like I messed up the belt timing? I remember reading somewhere that with these engines you dont actually go exactly off the marks behind the cam sprockets, and that you instead bring the right cam sprocket slightly to the right of the mark, and the left cam sprocket slightly to the left of its mark- feel like I'm bumbling around in the dark here- anyone got some light?

ahh crap- I spaced and forgot to add that there were two codes:

42 vss circuit
and
43 starter signal circuit

TNRabbit

Having the valve timing off will not affect how you need to set the distributor. My guess is the distributor is bad, or you are not getting it aligned properly. You are setting the rotor @ 11 o'clock position when #1 is at TDC, correct?

If you're getting timing mark jumping around, that's generally bad distributor electronics. The only other thing I can think of that would cause it would be a faulty ECM.

josephpatrickgray

iTrader: (1)

When I've had similiar issues in the past after having the distributor out of the engine I just remove the distributor and brought it back one tooth. I had it set to TDC on the compression stroke but for some reason it is easy to install the distributor off by a tooth.

proeliumfessus

Sorry to bump this again guys... but I really think I need a guru here- still having this problem... cant figure it out for the life of me... adjusted the throttle position sensor to spec, replaced the dizzy, and many times over verified the dizzy is on the right tooth. Still no luck, engine remains 30-50 degrees advanced.. Plz help

bone collector

there are 13 gear teeth on the 3vze dizzy. 360 degrees divided by 13 teeth equals 27.69 degrees. which is about the amount you are running advanced. take the dizzy back one tooth and play with the timing in the adjustment slot. i just replaced my 3vze dizzy because the timing was jumping all over the place as well. it runs much better now. good luck

big1000

I really hope this is what I did. I'm having a similar problem but I haven't got my runner to fully fire up. Brand new cap and rotor and wires, and the thing ran before I put the new engine in.

One thing that confused me though is when I take the wire off the spark plug while someone is turning it over, I get one or two fairly weak zaps and then nothing... This doesn't seem normal. Any advice?

ksti

I'm not a guru, but just a shot in the dark, did you check the harmonic balancer (damper pulley)
to see if it's worn out/damaged----cracking at collar or sleeve?

big1000

It seems to be perfectly normal... What would that do?

ksti

Disregard what i said I was referring to the OP and it's an old thread.
Sorry my bad

scope103

Use a timing light. It's not like they cost anything. http://www.harborfreight.com/xenon-t...ight-3343.html

There's a place for hold-the-plugwire-near-the-block, but this isn't it. The magic of using the right tool is that it tests the whole ignition system for you - as long as you get a flash, the coil and igniter are working, and then you easily check that it's firing in the right place.

big1000

Hey thanks a lot for responding to my madness. It's good to know that at least something maybe working correctly but this is my first engine transplant and I am completely baffled. I think it may be off by a tooth so I'm going to go home and try that and use the starter fluid method and if still nothing I'm getting a timing light from my friends house. I don't know how to use it but I'm sure he will let me know and I will let you guys know if it works

big1000

So it looks like the distributor was off by a tooth! But now it fires up and dies right Away. It makes me think something seriously wrong because it fires up quick...

scope103

Because you checked it with a timing light? Or did you just pull the distributor, make the sign of the cross, and stick it back in?

On the assumption that you now have the timing set, correctly, "fires right up and dies right away" can be a problem in the COR-VAF circuit. Easy to diagnose.

But if you haven't checked your timing with a timing light, you're going to spend a long, long time chasing your tail.

Pat8942

Seems most of the 3VZE "problems" originate with the guy tinkering under the hood, these engines are no better or worse than anything else, propaghanda from people who don't know what they're doing.