3VZE Low power, I give up
03-16-2017, 07:21 AM
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3VZE Low power, I give up
I have 1994 Toyota pickup Ext cab. Less than 1000 miles (Truck has 223,000) on a reman from OER. Every since we installed the reman I have had low power issues. Below is a list of what we have done
New O2 sensor
New Cat
New Cold start injector
New TPS sensor
New Fuel Filter
Full Tune Up
New Knock sensor and signal wire
The tune up and fuel filter we did as we installed the reman. We replace the engine because it had blown head gaskets. There was so much coolant in the bottom end we went with at reman. Also, my boy turns 16 in a couple weeks and this is his first truck. At first (after reman install) it was not even drivable. Idled fine and ran with no load, but on the road it was a dog. We replaced O2 sensor first and that help a ton. We thought we had it, but it has this odd issue between 20-50 mph randomly. It takes forever to get up to speed. We went to the cold start injector after thinking it was leaking and flooding, but that didn't make a difference. After reading forums and talking to a couple guys, we tried to adjust the TPS, and when the truck acted up I unplugged it and it ran awesome. Ordered a new TPS sensor and installed. Ran good for a couple days, but it came back. I have noticed a trend, when ever we replace a part we reset the ECU. The truck seems to run awesome for a couple days (about 20 miles worth). The last time the problem occurred, I took off the negative battery cable and rest the ECU and now the truck ran good again for a couple days. Now this morning it start acting up again. Confused and don't know where to go next. I have a passenger side valve cover leaking, when we remove the plenum I was going to replace the injectors, don't think that is the issue, but should have done it in the first place.
I am pretty sure I am forgetting stuff, but frustrate and before I bring it to a shop was wondering if anybody had any ideas. The truck is drivable. It drove perfectly fine before the head gaskets. thanks in advance!
New O2 sensor
New Cat
New Cold start injector
New TPS sensor
New Fuel Filter
Full Tune Up
New Knock sensor and signal wire
The tune up and fuel filter we did as we installed the reman. We replace the engine because it had blown head gaskets. There was so much coolant in the bottom end we went with at reman. Also, my boy turns 16 in a couple weeks and this is his first truck. At first (after reman install) it was not even drivable. Idled fine and ran with no load, but on the road it was a dog. We replaced O2 sensor first and that help a ton. We thought we had it, but it has this odd issue between 20-50 mph randomly. It takes forever to get up to speed. We went to the cold start injector after thinking it was leaking and flooding, but that didn't make a difference. After reading forums and talking to a couple guys, we tried to adjust the TPS, and when the truck acted up I unplugged it and it ran awesome. Ordered a new TPS sensor and installed. Ran good for a couple days, but it came back. I have noticed a trend, when ever we replace a part we reset the ECU. The truck seems to run awesome for a couple days (about 20 miles worth). The last time the problem occurred, I took off the negative battery cable and rest the ECU and now the truck ran good again for a couple days. Now this morning it start acting up again. Confused and don't know where to go next. I have a passenger side valve cover leaking, when we remove the plenum I was going to replace the injectors, don't think that is the issue, but should have done it in the first place.
I am pretty sure I am forgetting stuff, but frustrate and before I bring it to a shop was wondering if anybody had any ideas. The truck is drivable. It drove perfectly fine before the head gaskets. thanks in advance!
03-16-2017, 09:29 AM
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03-16-2017, 10:21 AM
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I heard mix stories about synth oil being used during break in period, but honestly confused on how in this case it would cause this issue I am having? Can you elaborate? I am up for any advice at this point.
03-16-2017, 10:41 AM
#6
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Myself, and others I presume, need a bit more info before we can give more input on this.
How does the current oil smell? Like fuel possibly?
Can you tell us your procedure when doing a compression test?
Also, how soon was it done after the engine was broken in?
03-16-2017, 04:43 PM
#7
Air flow meter most likely. Check ecu first. I have a 94 2wd auto 22re thats been giving me the same problems after I installed a used motor. Did tps, O2, ect, fuel filter etc. Sometimes its ok sometimes not. Narrowed it down to the afm. I pulled 1 off an 88 and didn't realize until yesterday that the model numbers don't match to original. Anyhow I have your same symptoms and I'm positive thats my problem.
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03-16-2017, 04:56 PM
#8
I have 1994 Toyota pickup Ext cab. Less than 1000 miles (Truck has 223,000) on a reman from OER. Every since we installed the reman I have had low power issues. Below is a list of what we have done
New O2 sensor
New Cat
New Cold start injector
New TPS sensor
New Fuel Filter
Full Tune Up
New Knock sensor and signal wire
The tune up and fuel filter we did as we installed the reman. We replace the engine because it had blown head gaskets. There was so much coolant in the bottom end we went with at reman. Also, my boy turns 16 in a couple weeks and this is his first truck. At first (after reman install) it was not even drivable. Idled fine and ran with no load, but on the road it was a dog. We replaced O2 sensor first and that help a ton. We thought we had it, but it has this odd issue between 20-50 mph randomly. It takes forever to get up to speed. We went to the cold start injector after thinking it was leaking and flooding, but that didn't make a difference. After reading forums and talking to a couple guys, we tried to adjust the TPS, and when the truck acted up I unplugged it and it ran awesome. Ordered a new TPS sensor and installed. Ran good for a couple days, but it came back. I have noticed a trend, when ever we replace a part we reset the ECU. The truck seems to run awesome for a couple days (about 20 miles worth). The last time the problem occurred, I took off the negative battery cable and rest the ECU and now the truck ran good again for a couple days. Now this morning it start acting up again. Confused and don't know where to go next. I have a passenger side valve cover leaking, when we remove the plenum I was going to replace the injectors, don't think that is the issue, but should have done it in the first place.
I am pretty sure I am forgetting stuff, but frustrate and before I bring it to a shop was wondering if anybody had any ideas. The truck is drivable. It drove perfectly fine before the head gaskets. thanks in advance!
New O2 sensor
New Cat
New Cold start injector
New TPS sensor
New Fuel Filter
Full Tune Up
New Knock sensor and signal wire
The tune up and fuel filter we did as we installed the reman. We replace the engine because it had blown head gaskets. There was so much coolant in the bottom end we went with at reman. Also, my boy turns 16 in a couple weeks and this is his first truck. At first (after reman install) it was not even drivable. Idled fine and ran with no load, but on the road it was a dog. We replaced O2 sensor first and that help a ton. We thought we had it, but it has this odd issue between 20-50 mph randomly. It takes forever to get up to speed. We went to the cold start injector after thinking it was leaking and flooding, but that didn't make a difference. After reading forums and talking to a couple guys, we tried to adjust the TPS, and when the truck acted up I unplugged it and it ran awesome. Ordered a new TPS sensor and installed. Ran good for a couple days, but it came back. I have noticed a trend, when ever we replace a part we reset the ECU. The truck seems to run awesome for a couple days (about 20 miles worth). The last time the problem occurred, I took off the negative battery cable and rest the ECU and now the truck ran good again for a couple days. Now this morning it start acting up again. Confused and don't know where to go next. I have a passenger side valve cover leaking, when we remove the plenum I was going to replace the injectors, don't think that is the issue, but should have done it in the first place.
I am pretty sure I am forgetting stuff, but frustrate and before I bring it to a shop was wondering if anybody had any ideas. The truck is drivable. It drove perfectly fine before the head gaskets. thanks in advance!
03-17-2017, 08:54 PM
#9
Ignition timing could make it feel doggy, but if you've been around the 3.0L, you should know what a "happy" one sounds like.
Since it seems to relate to resetting the ECU, and it's back to the default settings, it seems to suggest something in the closed loop system would be the cause. You've hit O2 already and you said it helped a lot, so it would seem that checking engine temp sensor (one for the ecu), air intake sensor (part of AFM), and the air metering (AFM) would be good logical things to check. An air intake leak (tubing to AFM etc) can really hinder these engines, and I've read the engine temp sensor can be so bad it causes a no start situation on the 3.0L.
Since the engine is new, you shouldn't be running it hard (unless you're trying to follow that type of break in process, I'm not really a supporter though). It won't rev and perform as good as a good running used engine at first since things are still working to mesh together and rings need to seat in the cyl walls. I'm also on the bandwagon of not using synthetic oil on a new engine till the break in process is done. Not really saying new vs used engine is the problem, just a thing to be mindful of, it should run even better once it's fully broke in when it isn't acting up.
Test info on air flow meter:
Since it seems to relate to resetting the ECU, and it's back to the default settings, it seems to suggest something in the closed loop system would be the cause. You've hit O2 already and you said it helped a lot, so it would seem that checking engine temp sensor (one for the ecu), air intake sensor (part of AFM), and the air metering (AFM) would be good logical things to check. An air intake leak (tubing to AFM etc) can really hinder these engines, and I've read the engine temp sensor can be so bad it causes a no start situation on the 3.0L.
Since the engine is new, you shouldn't be running it hard (unless you're trying to follow that type of break in process, I'm not really a supporter though). It won't rev and perform as good as a good running used engine at first since things are still working to mesh together and rings need to seat in the cyl walls. I'm also on the bandwagon of not using synthetic oil on a new engine till the break in process is done. Not really saying new vs used engine is the problem, just a thing to be mindful of, it should run even better once it's fully broke in when it isn't acting up.
Test info on air flow meter:
Pickup 3.0L v6
The 7 contacts at the air flow meter are in this order: Fc-E1-E2-Vc-E2-Vs-THA (yes there are 2 "E2" contacts)
The specs should be:
Vs-E2.......... 200-600 ohms
Vc-E2.......... 200-400 Ohms
THA-E2 ....... 10-20K ohms at 4*F
.................. 4-7K Ohms at 32*
.................. 2-3K ohms at 68*
.................. 0.9-1.3k ohms at 104*
.................. 0.4-0.7k ohms at 140*
Fc-E1.......... infinity
4cyl 22R layout is Fc-E1-E2-Vb-Vc-Vs
The 7 contacts at the air flow meter are in this order: Fc-E1-E2-Vc-E2-Vs-THA (yes there are 2 "E2" contacts)
The specs should be:
Vs-E2.......... 200-600 ohms
Vc-E2.......... 200-400 Ohms
THA-E2 ....... 10-20K ohms at 4*F
.................. 4-7K Ohms at 32*
.................. 2-3K ohms at 68*
.................. 0.9-1.3k ohms at 104*
.................. 0.4-0.7k ohms at 140*
Fc-E1.......... infinity
4cyl 22R layout is Fc-E1-E2-Vb-Vc-Vs
03-21-2017, 02:32 PM
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I tried a known good AFM from a friend of a friend, but no difference, actually almost seemed worse. Tomorrow I will be fixing the leak and replacing the injectors. I have been reading a couple of guys whom had similar issues to this and they both ended up replacing the distributor.
03-21-2017, 06:02 PM
#11
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If you can absolutely lock down the disconnecting power to the ecu theory by multiple replications then you absolutely have an electrical problem. You don't need to remove the negative cable. You should just be able to pull the EFI fuse and get the same result. It takes time to disconnect the battery. Let me tell you a story about why that last sentence is important.
At work I have a Deere log loader that randomly stops moving. Move the joystick and nothing happens. Now there is a hydraulic pilot supply cut-off valve mounted on the side of the machine that has an electronic solenoid that opens and closes the valve. Several of my operators have run this machine and they all have a different method of making it work again. They argue over which method is best. One removes the fuse, polishes it and replaces it. One turns the battery disconnect switch off and one removes the negative cable. All of these methods seem to work most of the time. So what is the one thing in common? Time. In the time it takes them to do these tests, the worn out solenoid coil would cool down and it would magnetize properly. Moral of the story is, you need absolute proof that something you do, actually causes the engine to behave differently or if it's not just the amount of time it takes to do it. Figure out a way to instantly test your theory before you follow it down a rabbit hole.
Now, if you confirm this, and I mean bet your life on it confirm this, assume that your have an electrical problem with a sensor, part of your harness / ground that you no doubt disturbed when installing the engine, or the ecu. Leave the valve cover gasket, injectors, or any mechanical issue for that matter for now. Stick to troubleshooting the electrical and focus on everything you disconnected and the reconnected during the engine replacement.
At work I have a Deere log loader that randomly stops moving. Move the joystick and nothing happens. Now there is a hydraulic pilot supply cut-off valve mounted on the side of the machine that has an electronic solenoid that opens and closes the valve. Several of my operators have run this machine and they all have a different method of making it work again. They argue over which method is best. One removes the fuse, polishes it and replaces it. One turns the battery disconnect switch off and one removes the negative cable. All of these methods seem to work most of the time. So what is the one thing in common? Time. In the time it takes them to do these tests, the worn out solenoid coil would cool down and it would magnetize properly. Moral of the story is, you need absolute proof that something you do, actually causes the engine to behave differently or if it's not just the amount of time it takes to do it. Figure out a way to instantly test your theory before you follow it down a rabbit hole.
Now, if you confirm this, and I mean bet your life on it confirm this, assume that your have an electrical problem with a sensor, part of your harness / ground that you no doubt disturbed when installing the engine, or the ecu. Leave the valve cover gasket, injectors, or any mechanical issue for that matter for now. Stick to troubleshooting the electrical and focus on everything you disconnected and the reconnected during the engine replacement.
03-25-2017, 12:07 PM
#12
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FWIW, there are specific break-in oils available. Brad Penn makes an excellent one. You want an oil with high zinc content that will set the rings. Anyway...
4 cylinder or 6 cylinder? Was this a long block or short block? Are you sure the timing belt is on correctly? Distributor in the right spot? Spark plug wires routed correctly? EGR isn't hanging open or getting stuck? All of the vacuum lines are correct? If the vehicle was running well before the swap was done, it's likely something happened during the install that's out of place. The components on these trucks are pretty durable. An immediate failure, while possible, is unlikely. Probably something very simple. Start from square one, check and re-check. Be logical, use the service manual, take notes, be patient. Throw up some pictures and maybe someone here will see something out of place.
-Kevin
4 cylinder or 6 cylinder? Was this a long block or short block? Are you sure the timing belt is on correctly? Distributor in the right spot? Spark plug wires routed correctly? EGR isn't hanging open or getting stuck? All of the vacuum lines are correct? If the vehicle was running well before the swap was done, it's likely something happened during the install that's out of place. The components on these trucks are pretty durable. An immediate failure, while possible, is unlikely. Probably something very simple. Start from square one, check and re-check. Be logical, use the service manual, take notes, be patient. Throw up some pictures and maybe someone here will see something out of place.
-Kevin
03-25-2017, 09:48 PM
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03-27-2017, 07:05 AM
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Sorry for the late response, try to stay away from anything electronic on the weekends. Otherwise that is all the kids do!
Thursday I went ahead and started from square one, removed the plenum and double/triple checked all connections. Repaired valve cover leak and installed reman injectors (denso 4 hole). Reassemblied/route vacuum lines. I have had 2 other guys check the timing belt and distributor, everything looks good. Since Thursday I have put over 200 miles on it and it has not acted up again. I have my hopes high, but the problem is intermittent. The exhaust is in good shape. This week is the test!
At this point maybe I had a bad injector or a vacuum leak that I repaired and didn't even notice? I really don't know, we will see
Thanks for the tips.
Thursday I went ahead and started from square one, removed the plenum and double/triple checked all connections. Repaired valve cover leak and installed reman injectors (denso 4 hole). Reassemblied/route vacuum lines. I have had 2 other guys check the timing belt and distributor, everything looks good. Since Thursday I have put over 200 miles on it and it has not acted up again. I have my hopes high, but the problem is intermittent. The exhaust is in good shape. This week is the test!
At this point maybe I had a bad injector or a vacuum leak that I repaired and didn't even notice? I really don't know, we will see
Thanks for the tips.
03-27-2017, 07:19 AM
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The vacuum lines are a pain on these motors haha I'm having a hard time with my 92 starting up fine running well untill it warms up them all the sudden it starts missing and dies I'm going to look at the cold start today after work and see if it might be getting stuck open
05-16-2017, 07:25 AM
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Problem finally solved. It lasted only another couple days after repairing the valve cover leak and replacing injectors. My son drove it for a while and he said it was fine. I took it for a test drive one day and it was just a dog. When I got it home I checked for codes and found code 14, ignition signal lose. After talking to a couple guys I ordered a new distributor. After comparing pricing and not wanting to spend a ton I went with a spectra richporter distributor. I noticed a huge difference in performance and gas mileage. Its been close to a month now and everything is all good. The older distributor would intermittent drop signal.
Thanks again for the tips
Thanks again for the tips
05-16-2017, 03:26 PM
#20
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Good work! Three months ain't bad for all of that troubleshooting. Bet you learned a lot. I had a similar issue when I first brought mine home and I'm glad I did. I learned a ton and really enjoy working on mine after that education.
