Bunta Fujiwara

Plus, driving here in Colorado, I am perfectly happy with my 22R-E. I drive it to over 12,000 ft. on occasion, at a place called Montezuma. It goes up and down the canyon (up in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th; down in 4th and 5th) and down to Denver perfectly fine and gets 25 mpg on the highway and 19-20 in the city when I'm not revving the hell out of it. The 3VZ-E is great too, as we took my cousin's 89.5 4Runner SR5 up to Montezuma once and it absolutely rocked. I don't have any problem with going 35-40 mph up most of the canyon, and going down at 65-70 with 25 mpg. I also loved my '85 22R truck. Even though it lost almost all power at altitude, it still got around and it never broke down after over 300k miles, and I'm talking running at 5000-5500+ in the deep snow. Until it was stolen by a punk kid and completely destroyed. Recovering it was one of the most tragic and sad days of my life.

cbrsport17

Really would have been nice if the diesel engine was in 4runners in the states, my buddy has a 4runner(surf) with a turbo diesel engine and it is awesome offroading. he wants to bring it back to the states with him, but its goin to cost an arm and a leg...my Surf has a 3.0 and its not that bad, eats gas like crazy...

Bunta Fujiwara

Do you like the Altezza? How about the 2000GT? (Well, everybody's gotta like that one).

89truck

There is plenty of passionate replies. I like my little 22RE. It pushes my truck just fine. I have had limited experience with 3.0. The 3.0 was an automatic, and my 22RE is manual. My brother had an 89 4runner with the 3.0 auto. It was lifted and 33X12.50 on it. The few times I drove it just seemed slow off the line. Once it got up to speed it was fine. My little 22RE gets up pretty good. It does seem to respond better at wide open throttle then anything else. The higher the RPM the better the get up. I think that is why people are saying it takes the red-line better. The 22RE in my opinion is easier to modify. Also I can't vouch for gas mileage. I really like the high RPM get up, and the sound of the exhaust. So driving the way I do I only average about 16-18 MPG.

craw4x4

I have a 95 4runner with the 3.0, and so far i don't have much bad to say about the motor , I recently took it off roading , and i think all the guys i was with had the 3.4 and i did just as well as they did , even when it came to pulling out stuck rigs. so i'll stick with my 3. slow 4 now.

CoedNaked

The 22RE does have flaws with it's timing chain guides, and it does blow the odd head gasket as well. Does the 22RE make it 240,000 miles with the plastic timing chain guides?

Manual versus manual, the 3.0 is the motor you would pick to tow with. It is more readily available. It comes with better stock gears. It comes with better option packages.

You can mod the 22RE all you want but you won't get the low end grunt out of the 22RE plugging a bunch of $$$ in mods into this engine that the 3vze has. And if I did headers and an exhaust on both engines as an example, the 3vze would be light years ahead.

Bunta Fujiwara

I agree as far as towing. More low end torque is always better. A 22R or 22R-E is just not going to have the low end needed to do the job. However, I don't really tow anything with the '93 and I hardly ever haul much of anything. For those jobs, the Tacoma is the truck of choice. The low-end and mid-range on the 5VZ-FE are massive compared to that of the 22R-E. As for reliability, I know of an '85 carbed 22R making it to 851,000 on all original componenets. The chain was probably replaced a couple of times, but it never broke. The head gasket never had any trouble. Nor did anything else. The 3VZ-E would probably be about the same reliability-wise, as long as you took care of it so as not to blow the head gasket as many people have. There are two myths regarding these engines. One is the myth of the dual-row chain being superior to the single on the 22R. The only thing better there was the steel guides for the dual row chain. As for the chain itself, Toyota went to a single to reduce pumping losses within the engine and therefore free up more power. The other myth concerns the 3VZ-E. Many people think it's crap, but it's not. They assume that it just blows head gaskets naturally. But I think if you took good care of it, you could go every bit as far as the 22R/22R-E. But I'm happy with mine just because I don't really have to go fast all the time or tow or haul much.

whitedevil666

my current 94 4runner has a 3.0, and i have had an 81 2wd pickup and a 94 2wd pickup both with 22r (22re on the 94). i did a head gasket on the 81 when i was 16 by myself. gasket didn't blow, i broke a spark plug off flat in the head. none of these will ever be a hot rod, they are all in the "go" department. they can serve very well when in their element. if i was to build a small light pickup with tires no bigger than 33 to 35 at most, and i didn't care how it would perform on the highway i would use the 22r without a doubt. no further consideration. but in building a little heavier truck, like my 94 runner, that has to still go down the road at 70+, and wheel, and drive around town i really like the 3vz's extra torque. yea it's heavier and bulkier, harder to work on, less mileage. but it makes driving my runner nice. not as nice as a ford 347 stroker... but even then it wouldn't be fast. as for longevity, any of you who are splitting threads on 200k+ engines should calm down. any gasoline engine with that kind of mileage on it is on borrowed time and you should be happy with getting away with it for this long without rebuilding it *yet*

they are both above average useful lifespan and low powered.

EUROJulian

LOL. Very funny.

Theorist? Nah...that is far off shot. I fixed countless of those 3.0 motors over the years and I hate them. Thanx God hey are mostly dead by now.

EUROJulian

Another funny from you

When timing chain, sprockets and guides should be replaced?

Front engine cover faliures on 22 are because of owner neglect and lack of proper maintenance.

ohio

I've owned both but in different types of trucks (95 4R V6 5sp, 92 4x4 I4 5sp, 86 4R I4 5sp). The big reason I'll never get another 3vze (unless it's to do a 5vze swap) is the mileage. It was super smooth and made decent torque and hp for the size (it is only 3.0L, just half a liter bigger than the I4), and I never had a hint of a problem, but I was getting 15mpg on a good day and 13mpg on winter gas... that is just atrocious economy for an engine that small.

Bumpin' Yota

i still cant believe all this bs about not revving a 3vz-e. They were DESIGNED to be revved!! :mad: lol They really dont wake up until 3000rpm, then pull nice and strong to ~4800rpm. If you have cams like I do, it pulls nice and strong from 2500 rpm to redline (which btw is a full 2800rpm less than its sister engine the 3vz-fe which is also a 3L v6 with the same bottom end, save pistons.)

My 3vze saw redline at least 5x every drive, every day of its LONG 17 year life. Im at 281,000 miles currently and I put 220,000 of them on the clock.

Both the 3vze and 5vzfe were origionally build for offroad racing and designed to have the snot revved out of them to develop the horsepower. HP is a function of swept volume, since the displacement is stuck at 3L, you have to increase redline.... Needless to say most of the racing oriented 3vz-e's were "detuned" to 350odd hp, but were capable of 400+ hp if revved high enough. Food for thought about this engine family's true capability.

Just because something has multiple cylinders does not mean that it shouldnt be revved. GM LT5 is a great case in point. Found in the early 90s ZR1 vettes, these 5.7L, pushrod, v8s possesed a 7200rpm red line. The current production LS7 found in the ZO6 corvette is a 7.0L, 427 ci, v8. It's redline? 7000 rpm. Both of these engines really wake up when they hit the "three grand power band" and just take off. The same is true of the 6500rpm limited LS1.




1. Change the O2 sensor
2. Full tune up
3. Extract lead foot from throttle
4. Drive no faster than 65mph on interstate
5. Keep RPMs under 3k for duration of tank (fuel economy)
=
20+ mpg all day long.

And that assumes you have a 4900lb 4runner with an auto like mine. If yous is lighter or a pickup you should get much better.

PhilR

I currently have both a 1990 Xtracab 4x4 with the 22RE and a 1993 Xtracab SR5 with the 3VZE and I used to have a 1993 Xtracab with the 22RE and the exact same mileage as my current 1993 V6 truck has (126,000 miles). All 3 have manual transmissions and the 4 cyls have 4.10 gearing (the 1993 had small P225/75-15 tires while the 1990 has 31" tires). The V6 has 4.56 gearing and 31" tires.

I don't know if the head gaskets have been replaced on the 1993 V6 but I know it was on the 1993 4cyl two years before I got it at about 100,000 miles. The 1990 4 cyl has low oil pressure and has piston noise when cold and it currently has a bit less than 160,000 miles. The V6 leaks some oil at the valve covers gaskets while the 4cyls didn't. two of my friends have 3VZE engines in their trucks and both run well but also leak oil at their valve cover gaskets.
Another friend of mine has a 1989 regular cab 4x4 with a carburated 22R but it is it's third engine. It previously had another 22R and it's original engine was a 22RE.

I find neither eigines to be very powerful but in stock form, the 4 cyl is a bit weaker and it's a bit cheaper on gas. The V6 runs smoother. I like big engines and neither are big or powerful enough for my taste but I have to admit I prefer the V6 over the 4 cyl mainly because of it's sound and it's little power advanage. I just don't like working on the V6 (didn't work much on mine yet but I did work on others!). Many years ago (in 1996), I have driven a friend's 1991 4Runner SR5 V6 with the automatic transmission from Montreal to New York city and I remember it was quite slow and not fuel efficient at all for such a small V6. I wouldn't want an automatic with any of these engines! I have a 1989 Jeep XJ with a 4 liter 6cyl and and a Toyota (Aisin AW4) automatic transmission and I like it but the 4Runner really lacked power compared to the Jeep and I'm pretty sure it was eating more gas at highway speeds!

LIVES4CRAWLIN91

ok here's my 2 cents, I have a 91 toyota 3.0, had an 86 22rte, i also have an 83 22r and an 85 22re, so virtually i have all of the motors at some point in time, minus the 20r and the 5vz-fe, and personally i love the 22re, now my 3.0 has 261,000 + and she's a pain in the butt to work on, not that i mind it or anything, lol the 86 22rte is a money pit, good if you have the money to do a turbo swap ie g3 or something, but i personally like the 22re in the 85, and I'm actually planning on doing a lce crate for that extra power, now dont go off on the amount of $$ its going to cost because i want to keep a "toyota" motor in it, and not mess wit the 3.4. The 3.0 is also about to undergo a lce rebuild just to see if it helps out the motor, and as for bottom end, My 3.0 doesn't seem to have a lot, and it does poor in town gas, and im runnin a 5spd 4.56 with 31s, but the highway gas is excellent, but as everyone else has said, these motors weren't meant to run a 14 second 1/4 mile, they were meant to be reliable, and get you from point a to point b no matter what obstacles come across your path, I mean if either one of the motors were powerhouses, wouldn't you think the stock gearing on these would be like a chevys or fords "in the 3.70:1 area" instead of 4.10s or lower. so ya for a general all around opinion 22re, or 3.0, or 22rte, whatever floats your boat.

sealteamz6

your the first person on here thats really given this motor that much crap

MaK92-4RnR

the 3vz is NOT a bad motor... everyone says terrible crap about it... but if you dont take care of any motor, it'll treat you like crap too. I've had my 4runner for 40k miles now... ( its had headers on it since 116k and is now at 145k ) I've done NOTHING but oil, filter, and air filter changes. Its begging for a tune up, yes. but Its still doing amazing things for me. I have full respect for this motor, despite what people say.

sealteamz6

since you have worked on lots of the 3vz/e's what whould you reccomend in terms of an engine and a vehicle that is a medium sized truck or 4runner type suv?

sealteamz6

yeah i would imagine the motors that guy worked on were from ppl who didnt take care of their cars. i mean these days its just a struggle to find great long lasting vehicles cause they are meant to break so that companys can make more money imo

HighRunner

I know this is an old thread, but I find this to be a very fun topic of discussion

I personally much prefer the 3VZE. I've been in trucks with both equipped and bottom line, the 3.0 has significantly more power, definitely mostly noticeable in the heavier 4Runner.

I can't imagine owning a 4Runner with the added weight from bumpers, a winch and bigger tires with the tiny 4cyl. I'll admit I do find it simply amazing what people are able to do with that motor, but making a trip on the highway would personally drive me insane with the 4 banger. I find it bad enough with the 3.0.

One thing that definitely bothers me, why does the topic continually rise about the 3VZE being "extremely difficult" to work on when compared to the 22RE? Stripping down the V6 is actually quite easy, I love the fact that it uses a timing belt rather than a messy timing chain, the belt is much easier to work with.

Well hopefully I was able to kickstart this age-old debate!! lol

89silverpu

Never had experience working on or driving a 3.0, but working on a 22re sucks a fatty if you've got big hands and arms...there are some bolts that are a pita to get to.