When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Hi guys. Been reading around trying to find if others have similar experiences with their IFS and lunchbox locker. I installed mine, I am very sure I did a good job, but I imagine it is still possible I did something wrong. Anyway, was excited and having an Aussie in the rear for sometime now I had an idea of what behavior to expect. Well, it is not doing well. It does not easily get into the ratchetting as I attempt to corner. I tried to turn while coasting, while easy on the throttle and for kicks and giggles even tried hard on the throttle. The outcome is a damn freeky ride and no turning. Visual inspection shows everything is great. Going back to my pics of the install you can see that the distances between the internals are within tolerence.
So what gives? Any secrets to the IFS lunchbox locker?
Im gonna put the whole car on jacks and try to test it that way.
This is my biggest fear of putting a locker in the front of mine. I have a locker in the rear already and it very rarely unlocks. Once I get it off road it's a whole new locker. Off-road it will ratchet and do everything perfect . On road LOCKED
I Hope you get a solution. If so, we both learn something.
I have Spartan lockers (similar design to the Aussie) front and rear on my 95 4Runner. I only lock both hubs when I have very low traction, deep snow or loose rocks and mud. It just wants to go straight otherwise. That being said I would never go back to wheeling without it, I hardly ever have to winch anymore.
I would never install a locker on the front unless it was selectable like an ARB, had hubs I could unlock, or was strictly for offroad use. Otherwise your just asking for trouble. Been there and done that.
I did install manual hubs and ofcourse on the pavement I will unlock them and never use them.
My concern is if this behavior is NOT typical and there is an issue with the install. I tested the setup with the locker in the carrier (on a bench) and it was working fine, a bit tight, but it would ratchet. I expected the locker to ratchet SOME on the driveway (paved) it was not liking it. So I drove onto the lawn and it still didn't like it. Instead of the smooth CLICK CLICK CLICK, like the rear, it's more of a loud CLANK and only after a lot of stress builds up. I am sharing pictures below. I made sure all of the tolerances were within manufacturer spec, even took pics of the measurements
Inside for testing. Very nice tight fit.
All springs and pins went on easily, no issues that I can think of which would cause me to suspect a cause of the tight ratcheting.
I'll pose the question to torque masters if I don't find a solution soon (if there is a problem for which a solution is needed to begin with) and let you guys know how that goes.
I'll pose the question to torque masters if I don't find a solution soon (if there is a problem for which a solution is needed to begin with) and let you guys know how that goes.
Sounds good. A functioning locker that did its job 100% would be great. I'm the same way. When mine bangs or chirps a tire I just tell myself "I didn't buy an unlocker!"
Gevo - just so I understand, you are locking your hubs (and probably putting tcase into 4hi) so you can get an idea of how it behaves on pavement, right? I'd like to know what you find. Like you, I have an Aussie in the rear and it ratchets around pretty much every corner if I'm coasting and it chirps the tires if I goose it.
I'm also planning to put an Aussie in the front of my 88. The front IFS diff that I installed has the ADD collar, which I forced into the locked mode. But, I'm planning to hook up the vacuum actuators and see if it still works as designed, to engage the one side only when I press a button. That way with the front locker, I could effectively leave one front tire disconnected so that I can steer, but then press the button to engage both sides. That's my plan for now, if I don't like it I can always force the collar to be engaged like it is now, but still I'd like to see how your experience plays out with the front Aussie. Keep us posted on what TorqMasters says.
Gevo - just so I understand, you are locking your hubs (and probably putting tcase into 4hi) so you can get an idea of how it behaves on pavement, right? I'd like to know what you find. Like you, I have an Aussie in the rear and it ratchets around pretty much every corner if I'm coasting and it chirps the tires if I goose it.
I'm also planning to put an Aussie in the front of my 88. The front IFS diff that I installed has the ADD collar, which I forced into the locked mode. But, I'm planning to hook up the vacuum actuators and see if it still works as designed, to engage the one side only when I press a button. That way with the front locker, I could effectively leave one front tire disconnected so that I can steer, but then press the button to engage both sides. That's my plan for now, if I don't like it I can always force the collar to be engaged like it is now, but still I'd like to see how your experience plays out with the front Aussie. Keep us posted on what TorqMasters says.
Yessir, you have understood it correctly.The ADD collar can easily be manipulated as you wrote.
Actually, this gave me an idea. If I engage the ADD but not have the transfer case sending power to the diff this will be a great way to test the aussie locker. Basically it will be like when you coast around a turn with the rear locker. My thinking is that it may behave like the rear if it is not being 'driven' in which case it would mean that the locker is working fine and it is just a driveability issue with a front IFS locked system.
The Aussie (or any lunchbox locker) will not play nicely in the front of a part-time 4wd (one without a center diff) on pavement. You have to realize that the ratcheting is only between the two front wheels, not between the front wheels and the drive shaft. One of the wheels is always locked to the drive shaft, and the other one freewheels. Which one is locked and which one is free depends on the relative speeds, and the direction of the torque from the driveshaft to the wheels. The rules are this:
1) if the driveshaft is driving the axle (normal mode), the slowest wheel always is locked and the other one freewheels and can overrun the driveshaft.
2) if the driveshaft is being driven by the wheels (engine braking mode), the fastest wheel is locked and the other wheel can underrun the driveshaft.
These rules apply whether you are in a forward gear or reverse.
When you go around a corner, it will be the inside wheel that generally locks up, because it is trying to go slower than the driveshaft, and the locker won't allow that. Consequently, you get hopping and skipping and a strong centering force from the steering gear, causing the vehicle to want to plow straight ahead.
If you unlock one hub, (or unlock the ADD), and turn away from the locked wheel (so it's on the outside of the turn), now the wheel with the hub locked will want to go faster than the drive shaft. The locker won't allow that, either (see rule 2 above), so the drive shaft slows down the outside wheel, causing it to want to return to center and plow straight ahead.
All of this is even worse if you have a lunchbox locker in the rear, because that exaggerates the front/rear axle speed difference.
My front Aussie works great on trails (except for slick rock), fair on snow and ice, but I'd never try to run it on pavement. It binds up really tight on high traction surfaces.
Gevo, your locker may be working just fine. To be sure, do the tests recommended in the Aussie installation instructions where you jack up the front end and alternately try to turn one wheel while a friend holds the other. (Follow those instructions exactly). If those tests pass, then your locker is OK, and you should be good to use it on trails, and don't worry about its poor manners on pavement.
Thanks for the input RJR! I see we have similar setup (on your 1994 Runner), and I saw some posts during my searches where you had left some input and was hoping you would respond here
I couldn't find anywhere else where people who have had this setup for a few years wrote their experience on what to expect as the behavior.
I have been thinking about the role of the front and rear axles being bound to eachother through the transfer case (for last few hours)... I wasn't sure if the transfer case allows any 'slippage'... but it is clear now it can't slip unless it is an AWD system (with either a clutch system or differential). Also, this makes the test drive on my lawn make sense. The rear tires were still on the paved surface, no slippage.
Great education I will forego my previous ideas for testing and re-test with the Aussie instructions to make sure something hasn't changed since the first one.
Now I am very antsy to get on some dirt. But first, have to finish dealing with the thron in my side.. stupid brake bleeding!
All in all, I'm happy with my front Aussie. It is the biggest improvement to trail capability I've made on my '94, and I can put up with some of the poor manners in return. Generally I don't notice it much on trails, except that the steering can be a bit heavier, but power steering pretty much makes that just a minor annoyance.
Slick-rock, as I said, can bind it up. I usually leave the hubs unlocked if there's a lot of slick-rock, and only lock them when I need them. Usually on slick-rock there's plenty of traction with just the rears driving, anyway.
I thought it would be trickier on snow and ice, but actually it handles pretty well. The only time I have to be careful is when making a sharp right angle turn at an intersection. (But, since I got the '06, that has become my ski/snow/ice vehicle. AWD is just so superior to part-time 4wd on slick roads.)
With the hubs locked and the transfer case in 2Hi, it behaves just fine, even on dry pavement, since the front drive shaft is disconnected at the transfer case. And, of course, with the hubs unlocked the Aussie is completely invisible.
If all you do is trails and pavement, you should get along with Aussie just fine.
RJR - I think it was you who discussed the idea of using the ADD with a locker wasn't it? Anyhow, your explanation is great, I've read it twice and might have to read it a few more times to have it all sink in. live in Florida and there has never been a need to put it in 4WD on pavement here at all, my main concern was being able to turn on the trail, I wanted to be able to disconnect one side and get back to my normal steering, but sounds like you are saying that because of your rule #2, if the outer wheel is the locked wheel, you will still have a hard time turning.
I set mine up with the ADD still active and with a switch to disconnect it even when in 4wd. That hasn't turned out to be that great a feature on the trails. It doesn't really help turning all that much since the wheel that's still connected to the diff will always be the one locked to the driveshaft. It really makes the steering pull one way or the other, depending on whether you are accelerating or decelerating.
Having the ADD active does come in handy sometimes in snow/ice. Here in Colorado when I go skiing, generally 145 of the 150 miles to get to the ski area are on dry roads, but there may be a few miles where you'd really like the extra pull of at least one front wheel (sometimes it's just getting into or out of a parking lot). I can lock in the hub on the ADD side, and with the xfer case in 2wd the ADD is unlocked, so I can drive with no drag from the front drive train. Then when I put it in 4wd I get the extra pull from the one driven front wheel.
Other than that, I wouldn't bother with the ADD switching thing if I was doing it again.
RJR - I hadn't really ever thought of a locker in terms of one wheel being locked to the driveshaft, but in reading the Aussie locker specs I see now that they are referring to that when they mention that a wheel cannot go slower than rest of drivetrain. I'm bummed a little bit, I was hoping that by adding ADD back, I could have a pseudo selectable locker in the front. Not a huge deal I guess, I could always shift out of 4WD for a turn ... but then I'd lose low range.
Anyway, Gevo, sorry for the disruptions. I'd still like to know what you find out about testing your Aussie even though after RJRs explanations, it's probably fine.
Hey everyone here sharing my test results on the aussie locker in the IFS. I finally got around to it, and it performed as expected per aussie instructions.
It behaves very different than the rear differential though. And all of the conversation here about the transfer case and how it effects the IFS locker becomes more clear. So, in a few weeks I will be heading out to Hume Lake and will have an opportunity to use the system on the trails.
I'm not entirely sure I understand what the issue is. I had aussie lockers in my 92 4Runner front and rear and they behaved as expected.
The front - I couldn't even tell it was there until I locked my hubs. (Original ADD differential still operational with a manual hub conversion) As with any locker up front, make sure you put the most suitable line, you won't be able to turn once it's engaged.
The rear - This locker behaved entirely different than the front. if you're in gear going around a slow turn, it'll lock, chirp the tires and clank. If you clutch in around turns it made a consistent ratcheting noise. This is normal with an automatic locker.
MaK, the question for the locker in the front was to do when the hubs were locked and the 4x4 engaged. I have manual hubs on an automatic IFS system as well. When everythng is locked up, the transfer case wants to spin the front tires at the same rate as the rear and this is what causes the difficult driving situation on pavement. On dirt, the idea is that we will get enough slippage to where it won't be an issue.
MaK, the question for the locker in the front was to do when the hubs were locked and the 4x4 engaged. I have manual hubs on an automatic IFS system as well. When everythng is locked up, the transfer case wants to spin the front tires at the same rate as the rear and this is what causes the difficult driving situation on pavement. On dirt, the idea is that we will get enough slippage to where it won't be an issue.
Why are you attempting to use 4WD on the pavement?
07-18-2016, 10:52 PM
