jared63401

Hey, guys need your input. My 92 pickup w/ 150k ran hot the other day and I fill it up with antifreeze and few minutes later it was gone. Checked the oil and found out where it went. I got it towed home and after removing the head cover I notice that the timing chain wore some really nice grooves into the timing cover. It had been rattling for longer than I care to admit. My assumption is that the timing cover failed. I'd really really love it if I didn't have to dig deeper to get to the head gasket. Would a timing cover failure cause the HG to blow, too? What are your experiences with a double failure like that and what's your suggestions? Jared

Firebb15

Yes I would also like to know the answer to this question. I just bought a early 95 pickup with 306K. Runs great besides a little rattle and vanilla milkshake oil.
Can I just get by with a new chain/guides, and do some motor flushes?
Can someone help us out?
I'm new to 22re's...like 2 days new

abecedarian

It's possible to change the timing chain and cover without pulling the head gasket therefore it's not necessarily required to do so. If the head gasket is bad though, obviously it needs replaced.

If coolant got into the crankcase, there's a good chance the main and rod bearings could be damaged, and may need replaced as well.

Elton

if you search google http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/timingchain/

jared63401

Thanks for the info. I went ahead and bought a HG to put on. I'm currently fighting with 2 head bolts trying to get them loose. Any tips?

peow130

Uhhh.
Milkshake oil means water in your oil..
So yes, you need a new headgasket, or a timing chain cover...

whokrz

I had one that was stuck like you are describing I soaked it with penetrating oil over night which didn't help much because it didn't really get down to the threads. I then put a breaker bar on it and the bolt broke which allowed me to get the head off. Luckily part of the bolt was sticking up out of the block which allowed me to get penetrating oil down to the threads and soak it over night. The next morning I was able to turn it out with a pipe wrench.
There is also a bolt above the timing cover that hides in a puddle of oil that will need removed to get the head off.
I don't know that this is really advice and hopefully your head bolts won't break off.

Jay351

You might be okay, how bad did you overheat it?

I did a timing chain without touching the head

ayoung101

i just got done with my head gasket change on my 22re, and i had the same problem. all but 3 of them i easily broke loose with just the 3/8 ratchet and socket. i had to buy a breaker bar for the remaining 3, and once i broke them loose i switched to my torque wrench (cuz it ratchets) until it was loose enough for my air ratchet to remove them the rest of the way. it was a long and slow process for those 3 bolts. i even had problems pulling them out after they were completely unthreaded, due to gunk in the holes. they just. . . .stuck.

ayoung101

x2. when i did my timing chain a few years back i didn't remove the head either. and this time, when i changed my head gasket 2 weeks ago i didn't remove the timing chain cover.

Jipopotamo

Went through all these motions just the other day. From what I understand if the old timing chain has in fact worn holes through the timing cover, that will need to be replaced as well. Yes, coolant in the oil can quickly deteriorate bearings so that may also come up. The timing chain itself can in fact be replaced without removing the head but on the same side, if your HG needs replacing, the two projects share enough that its not a major inconvenience. Soak everything with PB blaster beforehand. The more time you let it work for you, the easier everything will be. And clean everything really really well while you have it all off and in hand. You'll thank yourself later.

-Calexico

jared63401

I agree, I ordered the whole shebang from engnbldr with the HG, timing chain, cover, bolts, pumps, and gaskets. Should be good to go...as long as the reassembly is as relatively pain free as the disassembly.

Finally got the head bolt loosened. Once loose, I sprayed a lot of PB Blaster down the bolt and it's loosened up nicely. Shouldn't bee too long till I can get it pulled and sent to the local machine shop.

jared63401

Got the head off a few minutes ago. The HG looks perfect. Better safe than sorry, I guess. The timing chain guides are shredded. It'll help me feel better knowing that the HG got replaced, too.

Jipopotamo

Well from the way I've read things, if you weren't directly suspect of your HG but there was coolant in the oil and your cover is worn through, the HG could be in working shape. The cover is the failure in this story. But seeing as you're already there. I always enjoy at least establishing a mental benchmark for myself. Now you'll KNOW the conditions as of assembly, ya know? Takes a lot of guesswork out of troubleshooting.

jared63401

Never mind....just took the head to the machine shop and the mechanic said that it had some telltale signs of a HG blow. It was slight, but there were signs. I haven't taken the timing cover off, yet, but I was just assuming the chain ate through the cover. I'm betting that when it initially overheated the last time I drove the truck it was due to the timing cover leak, then the overheating caused the HG to begin to fail. I think I caught it at just the right time. Either way, everything's getting replaced.

kevin g

Sorry for the sudden topic change, but Im just about to do a tensioner replacement on my 89 4runner. At least thats what I think I need to replace...the chain has suddenly become EXTREAMLY slack and the cam timing is surly off because its running very rough, and not firing at all on cylinders 2 and 3. yes, compression, ignition and fuel all check out ok.
I read through this helpful page http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/timingchain/
and things seem clear to me except for the oil and water pump removal. Do the have to be removed? or can I leave them alone? If the water pump pulley needs to be removed, are there any tips for the removal of the pulley?
One more thing, once the chain is on and good to go, I would turn engine over by hand a few times with the cover off to make sure things stay put. But can I start the engine just momentarily to see if its running? I realize oil would splash everywhere with the open oil pan under the timing cover. I would hate to put it all back together just to take it apart again.

Thanks so much guys!

Any information would be greatly appreciated and VERY helpful!

Jipopotamo

Ok lets see.
If you've never done timing work on this engine and everything is stock that means you have the original driver side plastic timing chain guides that will inevitably wear through and then eat through your timing cover and allowing coolant into the oil. So while you are going to be in there I would get a complete timing kit and do it all. I really like what I got from ENGNBLDR with the heavy duty steel guides so you'll never have to expect that issue. So theres that.

Oil and water pump will both have to come off, yes. The pulley wasn't easy but it wasn't hard. Just clever. Find a good solution to holding the pulley still and the bolts are easy enough.

I wouldn't think you would want to or be able to give a quick little "test run" still apart. you don't have to pull the head to change the timing but you will need to remove the valve cover and at least get into the top front of the head where the cam hooks up to the chain. Especially since there is a special always forgotten bolt in a divot in the front of the head from the topside that goes through the head to the top of the timing cover. Don't forget it! It is absolutely critical that you maintain general timing throughout all of this work. You would want to set your engine at TDC #1, so line the notches up on your engine pulley and make sure the dizzy is pointing at the number one plug.

I'm talking myself to crazy right now so I'll hush. That should more or less make sense. I just did this the other day so if you still have specifics just gimme a holler.

-Calexico

kevin g

Thanks so much buddy! I feel much more confident after reading your post!
Ok I will not run the engine with the cover off but I can still turn it over by hand right?
And as for the timing, I can have the crank set at TDC, but when I pull the chain and sprockets off, how do I make sure of exact cam timing when I install the new chain and sprocket? is there a key way or something to go by besides just having the correct valves loose for TDC?
And is the oil pump removal straight forward?

I really appreciate your time!!!

Jipopotamo

Yes you can turn it over by hand, but make sure everythings back together. If you turn the lower engine (pistons) by hand and don't have the upper engine (camshaft/valves) linked to it, you'll smash the piston tops into the open valves. Make sense, yeah?
The camshaft sprocket will have a dowel pin to help with location. Also, there will be visual aids on the sprockets, like little marks or notches that will help with timing as well as a special indicator link on the timing chain. The kit should have a little instruction sheet describing specifically what you need. If not, I can think real hard and recollect the setup but you should be ok. Also, when you pull the distributor it helps to mark an alignment notch on the actual body of the dizzy so you know where the rotor should be pointing when setup at #1 for TDC, yeah?
Oil pump is pretty straight forward. Just be mindful of orientation when taking it apart. Theres a strange shiny metal tooth ring gear thing that comes out easily so make sure not to let it fall out and hit the ground like yours truly.

If any of that is confusing or not clear, just holler and we can break it down.

kevin g

That sounds great! thanks again!
And do you have any tricks for water pump pulley removal? or does it even have to be removed?
And the tensioner is also a straight forward replacement im assuming?