linuxrunner

So my 22re has a rough idle, not crazy but enough that the shifter has about 2in of shake. (i have a truck with a 22r that idles smooth as silk so i know it's possible)

I have been through the FSM and read through the many posts of others with the same issue and tried almost everything i can think of.

Here is a little info of what i have tried or tested...

No CEL blinky error codes
I have a newly rebuilt (about 2k miles) engine (bad idle before and after the rebuild).
New Plugs and wires
New Cap and rotor
new fuel pressure regulator
new fuel filter
new fuel pump
New TPS
TB and intake completely cleaned when rebuilt engine installed
Cleaned and flow tested injectors including cold start (tested cold start not continuing to run)
New Engine Ground wires
Tested EGR valve
Tested O2 sensor
Using propane torch tested for vacuum leaks (found none)

Things that i should mention, have a slight coolant leak in my heater control valve. i have assumed this is the source of some temp issues i have been having (sometimes temp shows fully warm the minute i start the truck), however i have not tested or ever replaced any of the temp sensors.

Don't assume any of the testing or installation was done competently. Not that i have not already double checked everything but if you think i should take another look at something or test something again let me know.

scope103

"Rough" idle often means misfire. Hook your timing light to each plug wire to see if they are firing. Then pull each plug wire one at a time to see if one of them "makes no difference." (The plug could be firing, but the cylinder may not be.) Pull the plug from the non-firing (or irregularly firing) cylinder. Check gap. Is the plug wet? Dry? Oily? A dry plug that fires irregularly could be a stuck injector. A wet plug is probably not firing. Plugs are very simple; if you have one that is gapped correctly but not firing suspect the harness (you may be able to switch the plug wire (both ends) to check, but most harnesses are fitted pretty closely).

linuxrunner

Good suggestion, I'll give that a shot and report back.

Quick question. When setting my timing i have noticed that wire 1 (the only one i have ever attached the timing light to) seems to fire inconsistently. That is it's not a steady flash flash flash it's more of a flash flash pause flash pause flash flash, i assumed this was because the inductive timing light was imperfect. Should they be flashing very consistently?

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Scope's good with this stuff.... I'd double check all those he's mentioned(Plug firing/wire faulty even new/plug conditions-soaked or not, etc./)....

Maybe pull plugs, leaving them in the wire end and turn it over(I have my last set of plugs, in decent condition and KNOWN to be working, to check for 'HOT WHITE SPARK' through the wires and plugs by holding it near the block. This way I can leave the plugs I'm using in, testing just the wires first.) But you can just pull a plug at a time and in the wire, turn it over and check for hot white spark/differences between each other. (I also have a wire tester that's pretty accurate. Clip it onto each wire, tightly, and it lights up like the 4th if it's firing hot/to a certain level of spark... it also reveals if there's intermittent falling off on that wire.... Falling off; That would lead me back from there, to maybe air gap and secondary coil resistance... or to that wire, specifically.)

You mentioned a leak from the IACV.... I'm not sure how likely that is to create 'air' in the coolant system... BUT, if it does(Pulling air upward from the IACV into the Coolant Temp Sensor area, etc.)...that could cause problems. Was this leak there before the rebuild?

I feel for ya, man... Not sure if my 'mystery gremlin miss' is as noticeably shaky as yours... I'd have to see your engine in person... BUT, it's there, and it's annoying, and I've gone through nearly everything but fuel pressure at this point(brand new fuel pump and filter).

Like Scope said,.... 'could be a sticky injector'.... This happened to me, where the injector #2 actually froze up, almost immediately, upon first start of the first motor I HAD rebuilt.... A wad of gummy fuel line crap broke free in the fuel rail and went RIGHT INTO #2... The #2 runner on the header was not getting hot(until radiant heat came into play) and then noid testing revealed the wiring TO the #2 injector was fine.... and eventually a stethoscope EASILY revealed that's what the problem was. Took them all back in and that one, sure enough, when hit with a lil 12V zap, shot that brown wad of crud out..... I cleaned out the lines and rail as well as can be done... and never had another problem.

You can test for 'action' at the injectors, even at the ECU, with the right scope/meter.... It also helps to reveal if your problem, IF related to EFI/more specifically injectors, is coming from the 'wiring harness TO' the injectors....(Those Y-connector wires that join the 'pairs' of injectors HAVE OFTEN been a problem for people with these yota's).

Best wishes, man... I'm curious and watching/Rootin for ya!

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

That SEEMS it COULD be very telling.... BUT, .... my timing light contact occasionally goes intermittent as well. Even at the smog station, the guy was finding it difficult to get contact to verify timing. Could be my thick wires(magnecore 8.5mm ... might be going back to my OEM as there's nothing wrong with em). Again, I'd pull the wire and let it fire onto a flat bar of steel or something.... If it's steadily hot-white, then you know it's just your timing light. The tool I mentioned(spark plug wire test light) is a great and pretty cheap tool to keep on hand. (We used to take a thick handled screwdriver and let the wire hang down and arch onto the driver to watch/verify steady hot white spark. Maybe Scope can verify the best way to test this... it IS in the FSM as well)

scope103

A good timing light should flash on every spark pulse. Of course, not every timing light is a "good" one, some are just "good enough." So try an experiment; put your timing light on each wire, one at a time. If you see a difference, you could have a bad wire on #1. If each of them has the flash-pause, it's probably just the inductive pickup.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

YEP, ....and in fact, lol.... You guessed it.. my timing light is, 'meh', not terrible, not great. Doesn't read RPM, etc... Doesn't mean it shouldn't pick up the spark signal from any working plug wire... BUT yeah, .... Mine seems spotty on any truck I used it on. If i wiggle the wire just right...THEN it will sunddenly/steadily repeat a perfect rhythm with a nice bright white light.

Scope, do you think it's possible that my 8.5MM wires could cause a problem for a 'meh' timing light?

linuxrunner

Got a chance to hook up the timing light to each wire, they are all pretty consistently flashing. It does miss flash sometimes, but it seems to to it on all 4 wires.

Tried removing the plug wires and letting it spark to ground, again all 4 looked to be very consistent and strong. (i'll see if i can post up a video of this)

Here is a video of the shake at idle from the shifters perspective.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9f9UAlWlpg[/YOUTUBE]

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, that's a pretty decent rumble in the jungle.... Frustrating, those gremlins.

When you give it gas....> it responds fairly quickly and doesn't miss hard or bog out while accelerating into the RPM's?

Does it do those things when under load?

You know..... I'm just trying to cover everything when I say..... "Could be mechanical"... My Cam was bad to begin with upon rebuild time.... Then, the machinist I used the first time, he tried to put an RV grind on it... Even painted RV on the original CAM..... WELL, ........ after 1000 hours of chasing my tail, etc... (Maybe not 1000, but lots, lol).. I took it in to a shop I'd been told is GREAT with Yota's... The guy had me remove the fuel pump from the picture... He then started propane introduction into the plenum.... This removed most of the EFI components from the picture... And what do you know...there was the SAME MISS!

I tore off the valve cover, as he'd told me, "It's the CAM, PERIOD".... They were all talking it over in his shop.... "Mahhhh, could be a valve, but maybe Cam, sure".... Took pictures of the CAM, shot em up and had Tod and Ted at engnbldr take a look.... First words out of their mouth, ......"That cam IS TOAST!'... I replaced the cam with an engnbldr 261 cam without pulling the head(it's in my build).... Strapped it back down with the new cam, new adjusters... and WOW was it night and day! The VIOLENT miss I'd had was gone... But the underlying one? IT'S STILL THERE, now with a completely different short block, new to me crank, all new valves, dual row springs, new guides, new adjusters, rockers all pristine and working well... STILL can't find it..... But I WILL! lol.

That miss you're noticing... Seems it's bad enough that you can feel the tremble just sitting in the seat, right?

linuxrunner

Can definitely feel the shake in the seat, also enough to rattle the interior panels in the back... annoying

Got a new cam with the rebuild, the previous cam was aftermarket and i wanted everything back to stock. the only thing i kept from the rebuild was the block, everything else is new (head, cam, pistons you name it)

Seems to accelerate smooth with no miss, also if i bring the RPM's up to about 1000 it smooths out nicely.

The idle shake was pretty much exactly the same before the rebuild so that makes me think its related to some old part that i didn't bother replacing or testing.

Would a plugged CAT give a bad idle? mine makes an awful rattling noise from time to time but i have never got around to replacing it.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Ooooh! CAT's are notorious for effecting performance, mileage, etc. BUT, IIRC, they seem to effect more of the 'load' realm....Not sure on idle. I would imagine though.

Have you done the 02? (sorry, can't remember ANYTHING lately)....

Coolant Temp Sensor?

EGR Temp Sensor?(if 88+)

TPS?(IDL-E2 Setting is, iirc, the MOST important.... And I THINK if it's wonky on setting... it CAN effect just idle/low load-fuel pressure, etc.)

Checked all the IGN components?(Coil, Ignitor, Dizzy, Secondary Coil, Air Gap..... not sure how much idle would be effected on those without load showing signs of 'put..........putputptutp.........put' lol. )

AFM checked out to specs?

IACV usually causes a higher idle issue..... not so much 'put..... puputtputput...put' stuff's.

Wow, really seems telling to be only at idle. Telling what? Not sure.... but I KNOW that's a long list in the FSM "Troubleshooting" sections, Emissions, EFI, IGN and Basic as well.

Have you made sure you're not getting constant 'full on' fuel pressure(dead FPR?).... at idle? At idle, you're VSV should maintain a lower pressure as it's not needing full on FP until load, ...where it stops actuating and allows it to be passive(right? lol)....

sorry if this is redundant repetition..... Just don't have time to read back, gotta run. BE back later, if possible.

linuxrunner

Yes, new denso 02 about 3 years ago double checked a few months ago and it oscillates nicely on an analog multimeter

Not yet, i assume the test would be to pull it and drop it in a pot of hot water, make sure resistance or whatever is to spec?

MFG date is early 88, i do not have the EGR Temp Sensor

Replaced TPS with a new OEM about 2 years ago, tested to ensure it was properly calibrated still after rebuild a few months ago.

Have not looked at the AFM at all, always figured that would give me bogging and other load related issues... i'll check it out tonight


Tested fuel pressure when i replaced the fuel regulator and fuel pump. it was WAY high and after installing new regulator it's in the sweet spot.

87blackbeauty

As long as people are throwing things out, are there any holes in your intake hose between the MAF and the intake manifold? That was killing my 4runner a while back. If not, just turn up your idle. That's a nice cheap fix. However, if none of that works, you could check your cold start valve. It generally only is in use from startup until your truck's starting to get warm. So if it's only rough at start, that could be it... Maybe? Otherwise, I don't know what to tell you. Those EFI systems are a pain in the ass.

linuxrunner

Tested the AFM using 4crawler's instructions, it looks good.
Per his site I was looking for spots where the resistance went over 1k or open which if you watch the video there was none. Site did say that the values would not be linear but a general upward trend as the flapper opened.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZESWP0UoSo[/YOUTUBE]
*does everybody else see 2 youtube videos? what's up with that? i'm only adding one*

I did test the CSI when it was re-installed after being professionally cleaned and flow tested, flow tested with no leaks (so i assume it's not leaking) and i did test unplugging the wiring to make sure that the EFI system was not causing it to fire after the truck warmed up.

pimacdaddy

Yall need to tell us what happens guys !