22re Plastic Guides VS Metal Backed Guides
08-19-2010, 07:03 PM
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22re Plastic Guides VS Metal Backed Guides
After months of research I have come to the conclusion that plastic OSK or OEM timing chain guides are the way to go. Cheap Chinese metal backed guides will result in this, http://expeditionportal.com/forum/sh...d.php?p=341054 scroll down. A poorly made steel backed guide failure will lock the motor, but a plastic guide will disintegrate into the oil pan, probably resulted from a cheap tensioner. Hell, I have 200,000 miles on mine a now need a timing set overhaul. I am searching for a quality Japanese set at minimal cost, any Ideas?
08-19-2010, 07:24 PM
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08-19-2010, 07:33 PM
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My timing components are still all original with 113K miles on them and if I ever do have to replace them I'll probably just go with OEM. I'm sure the metal ones are fine, but you can't go wrong with Toyota parts IMO.
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08-19-2010, 09:49 PM
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Ok, quick question: when talking cheap Chinese "metal-backed" guides, what are they like and made of?
I'm asking because I bought a metal guided timing kit from JapanEngine (http://www.japanengine.com), and inspecting I find my guide to be of only reasonably thick steel. I don't see this being of the same "high standards" of the Chinese manufactured ones.
I'm asking because I bought a metal guided timing kit from JapanEngine (http://www.japanengine.com), and inspecting I find my guide to be of only reasonably thick steel. I don't see this being of the same "high standards" of the Chinese manufactured ones.
Last edited by gbwsaw28; 08-19-2010 at 09:59 PM.
08-19-2010, 10:47 PM
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Replaced a million cheap plastic timing chain guides.
Sure there is an unlikely possibility the metal guides will break and lock up your motor.
I will guarantee that the plastic ones will break sooner, and if left untreated the timing chain will eat through the timing cover, causing coolant to pour into your crankcase at a rapid pace.
The choice is yours. Just because one persons blew up doesnt mean they are junk
Theres a reason 90% of 22RE rebuild kits come with metal.
Sure there is an unlikely possibility the metal guides will break and lock up your motor.
I will guarantee that the plastic ones will break sooner, and if left untreated the timing chain will eat through the timing cover, causing coolant to pour into your crankcase at a rapid pace.
The choice is yours. Just because one persons blew up doesnt mean they are junk
Theres a reason 90% of 22RE rebuild kits come with metal.
08-19-2010, 10:50 PM
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Also... whos guides failed and why after 45K as stated in the article?
I'm thinking either who ever assembled is to blame, that or the tensioner.
I know several companies have been known to have cheap junk tensioners.
I'm thinking either who ever assembled is to blame, that or the tensioner.
I know several companies have been known to have cheap junk tensioners.
08-19-2010, 10:54 PM
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I would have to agree with rusche, 45K miles is definitely premature.
My guides and t-chain are at 113K miles so I'll be posting as soon as they fail, but judging by their condition I imagine I'll get at least 150K out of em.
That said, when it's time I will either buy a kit from Toyota or if I decide to go aftermarket Engnbldr is the only way to go.
My guides and t-chain are at 113K miles so I'll be posting as soon as they fail, but judging by their condition I imagine I'll get at least 150K out of em.
That said, when it's time I will either buy a kit from Toyota or if I decide to go aftermarket Engnbldr is the only way to go.
Last edited by pruney81; 08-19-2010 at 10:58 PM.
08-20-2010, 12:42 AM
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I think with a stock plastic guide kit from Toyota and if you maintain your truck well, it should go well over 150K miles even to 200K.
This is just speaking from personal experience because I have had 2 80's 4RRunners and both had over 200K on the original timing chain and they were fine. I drove them all over the country
This is just speaking from personal experience because I have had 2 80's 4RRunners and both had over 200K on the original timing chain and they were fine. I drove them all over the country
08-20-2010, 07:07 AM
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DaveInDenver was the gentleman that had the early failure. If you search YT, you'll find threads where's he's posted what his theory is on the failure. He blamed the oil tensioner for being of poor quality.
There's always warning signs when the timing chain assembly is getting ready to fail. And, there's sometimes risks you take in regards to quality when you go with a parts manufacturer you or anyone else is not familiar with. Research your parts before you buy them. Dave's main point is that with the OEM quality, IF the timing kit fails in the typical way (as his case was not typical), then you have a statistically better chance of not having to rebuild the entire engine. In all I've read about the metal guide failure issuse, I don't recall anyone mentioning it was a problem with engnbldr steel guide kits, though.
I have only 8k miles on my steel guide engnbldr kit. No problems so far, so it'll be interesting to see how long it does last. Last kit I had in there was a Japanese plastic guide kit. Got it from a reputable, foreign auto supplier here locally. It went around 80k before it failed bending six valves and destroying the timing cover. But, the failure didn't have to be so damaging. I simply waited too long ingoring the signs. So, in either case, with plastic or steel, it can happen. Might as well buck up and realize the inherent potentials with the 22r/e motors. Just do your research, pay attention, and try not to take any dumb chances.
There's always warning signs when the timing chain assembly is getting ready to fail. And, there's sometimes risks you take in regards to quality when you go with a parts manufacturer you or anyone else is not familiar with. Research your parts before you buy them. Dave's main point is that with the OEM quality, IF the timing kit fails in the typical way (as his case was not typical), then you have a statistically better chance of not having to rebuild the entire engine. In all I've read about the metal guide failure issuse, I don't recall anyone mentioning it was a problem with engnbldr steel guide kits, though.
I have only 8k miles on my steel guide engnbldr kit. No problems so far, so it'll be interesting to see how long it does last. Last kit I had in there was a Japanese plastic guide kit. Got it from a reputable, foreign auto supplier here locally. It went around 80k before it failed bending six valves and destroying the timing cover. But, the failure didn't have to be so damaging. I simply waited too long ingoring the signs. So, in either case, with plastic or steel, it can happen. Might as well buck up and realize the inherent potentials with the 22r/e motors. Just do your research, pay attention, and try not to take any dumb chances.
08-20-2010, 02:13 PM
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I always go with the steel. My thinking is that the guide should last for ever if the tensioner is working right. The downfall of the plastic is that it fatigues every time it gets smacked by the chain. The steel ones don't since they are made of one stamped piece (engbldrs anyway) and don't flex.
If your tensioner goes and you eat your way through then no guide will help your outcome. Your fault, not the guide.
That guy had a something wrong with that guide when he put it in I bet. That is the only story I have ever heard of, of that happening.
If your tensioner goes and you eat your way through then no guide will help your outcome. Your fault, not the guide.
That guy had a something wrong with that guide when he put it in I bet. That is the only story I have ever heard of, of that happening.
Last edited by Flash319; 08-20-2010 at 02:18 PM.
08-20-2010, 02:39 PM
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My driver's side guide is fully intact except there is a little side to side play.
I mean I can move it back and forth a little bit, is this normal?
It's been like this since March and I've put 10K miles or so on it since then.
I mean I can move it back and forth a little bit, is this normal?
It's been like this since March and I've put 10K miles or so on it since then.
Last edited by pruney81; 08-20-2010 at 02:41 PM.
08-20-2010, 02:44 PM
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If you go with metal guides, the "timing chain guides" will no longer be the cause for your next failure... Should you have one... I.e how long do most ppl own a 2nd hand truck anyway?
If you have guides on two identical motors, the plastic one will be the first to fail.
The metal one will either be b/c the chain snapped or the rings/ bearings are shot.
Chain breaks, valves bend. Toyota wants you to change the chain, so they say do it every x miles... well, you don't really need platinum guides if you change the chain when Toyota says to.
Plus, the metal ones don't break up, fall down in the oil pan and get sucked up into the screen by the oil pump, leading to failure due to lack of oiling.
All you have to do is buy the Cloyes 20R guides, chainsaw file the top bolt for the flat guide on the d-side and remove about 1/4" or more off the outside of both guides so the cover will fit on.
That's how the guys that charge you $60 plus the wait and shipping do it.
If you have guides on two identical motors, the plastic one will be the first to fail.
The metal one will either be b/c the chain snapped or the rings/ bearings are shot.
Chain breaks, valves bend. Toyota wants you to change the chain, so they say do it every x miles... well, you don't really need platinum guides if you change the chain when Toyota says to.
Plus, the metal ones don't break up, fall down in the oil pan and get sucked up into the screen by the oil pump, leading to failure due to lack of oiling.
All you have to do is buy the Cloyes 20R guides, chainsaw file the top bolt for the flat guide on the d-side and remove about 1/4" or more off the outside of both guides so the cover will fit on.
That's how the guys that charge you $60 plus the wait and shipping do it.
