noahstancik

I have a 89 4runner with rebuilt 22re that has about 10k on it. I've been having problems with it overheating when I have the AC on. It only overheats when I'm driving around at 35+ MPH and especially when I'm climbing hills on the interstate. It stays cool at idle. If I turn the AC off the temp drops pretty quickly and stays below operating temp. I've replaced everything but the fan clutch and Ive tried running it without the thermostat without any change. I even drove it 45 minutes to the lake last week pulling a boat, AC off, and the engine stayed at operating temp. Any help would be appreciated, I really miss my AC!

New triple core copper radiator (50% larger than stock)
New Aisin water pump
Fan clutch works fine
New Toyota dual stage thermostat
New radiator hoses
No coolant leaks
Burped the system several times, so I'm sure there is no air in the system
The condenser is warm, but not burning hot
I can turn the compressor clutch with my hand
The AC is ice cold

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Do You have a Auto trans as well ??

The combination of the condenser the trans cooler plus the added heat of hot concrete and black top all add to the cooling system load

When you had the radiator out did you clean the condenser??

Restricted air flow because of blocked condenser

noahstancik

I have a manual. My radiator has the ports for the transmission hookup, but I just plugged them since they're not used. The condenser looks clean, there's maybe 1 or 2 small dings in it so I don't think anything is restricting air flow.

grumpin

Do you have the shroud on the radiator for the fan? First thought was the radiator. It's new, but...

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

When you rebuilt the engine did you install a new temperature gauge sending unit??

These gauges are not all that accurate

My 22rec engines I always installed after market gauges temperature gauges then double checked with a infrared heat gun.

Sad fact is the quality of new radiators has gone downhill yours might have production issues .

AKHeathen

have you changed the air filter housing or intake piping? b leaking? vsv's mixed up? egr working?

noahstancik

Now the problem has gotten worse. The engine will run hot with the AC off, turning it on just pushes it too close to the red. I have to keep my speed under 60 to keep it close to operating temp, anything over 60 MPH and the temperature gets too high for my liking. Again, this is without the AC on. This is getting really frustrating.

Yes, I do have the fan shroud, theres no cracks. I'd like to think theres nothing wrong with the radiator since I paid over $250 for it from LCE, but anything is possible I guess. Sadly, I don't have an extra radiator lying around.

I do have a new temperature gauge sending unit.

I have new intake piping and a K&N cone filter, so I don't have the air box. I'm certain all of my VSV's are hooked up correctly. I have a new EGR.

osv

several weeks ago i drove my 22re from san diego to yosemite and back again, 115+ going through the central valley... it might have hit the halfway point on the temp gauge.

37" tires, dual cases, fully geared, etc., with an $89(?) radiator from rockauto... so i don't think that the radiator is your problem.

months ago i had a high temp issue at idle, on hot days, so i replaced the fan clutch with an asian unit, i think that it was $61 online somewhere... so i would do the fan clutch if i was you.

i tried to troubleshoot the fan clutch first, by seeing how much resistance it had to spinning by hand, hot vs. cold, but it didn't make sense.

GeoRoss

These issues can be frustrating. I am not an expert on the 22RE/4Runner, but I have seen similar issues in Land Cruisers and the check list is pretty similar.

You have replaced much of the cooling system. Did you put on a new radiator cap too? I don't have experience with after market 22RE parts and I try to stick to OEM when practical. A bad radiator cap can lead to cooling issues.

Did you switch radiator fluid types? Going from red to green without a thorough flush will cause sludge to form and clog up the radiator.

The fan clutches do go bad as the viscous fluid in them breaks down. There is a period where they still "work" but are weaker. How do you know that your fan clutch is still good? The fan just spinning isn't a good test of a functioning fan clutch. The only test I know of is to check for increased resistance in turning the fan after reaching operating temps. I have no clue how to test for a weak fan clutch other than really subjective ones. I know that OEM Land Cruiser fan clutches are rebuildable, I'm guessing the OEM 22RE fan clutch is too. I and many others have had great success using a higher CST fluid in Land Cruiser fan clutches to help with cooling in hot climates. You may want put in a new fan clutch or rebuild your existing one.

You've ruled out a bad thermostat. The only other potential bad parts would be a bad water pump or radiator even though they are new.

Good luck and I'll be curious how this works out.

87runner_

iTrader: (1)

2 things I suggest you should look at...

1.) A good fan clutch is critical in hot climates (I live in Phoenix).
- Aftermarket fan clutches are junk. Only use Toyota. No exceptions!!
- Yes, Toyota fan clutches can be rebuilt/re-filled.
- New Toyota fan clutches are filled with ~2K cst fluid and are ok.
- My experience: I purchased a new Toyota fan clutch, drained & filled it with 30k cst fluid. I *HIGHLY* recommend this for anyone living in a hot climate. Sounds like a B-29 under my hood when that baby engages!
- If you have an old Toyota fan clutch, I recommend do a drain & refill with 30k cst fluid (get at any hobby shop that sells RC accessories). It's cheap.
(thought: What I would give to have a 10-blade fan. )


2.) Do a compression test and post your numbers.
You may have an engine problem.

Hope this helps my friend!
-Mike

noahstancik

I replaced the fan clutch yesterday with a duralast from autozone since this is my daily driver and I needed to get it fixed fast. While I had the shroud and fan out I soaked the radiator down with some engine cleaner and sprayed out any mud that might be left over from my 4th of July adventure. It may be a DD but she still gets muddy sometimes, I'm sure there was some mud packed in between the fins. I also went through the condenser and painstakingly straightened all of the fins with a small flathead screwdriver. Problem seems to be solved. Pulled the boat to the lake with the AC on full blast, 90+ degrees and the needle never rose above 35%. Glad to have my truck back to normal. Figure I'll leave the duralast clutch in there until I get a Toyota clutch ordered and have some free time put it in, or if it starts giving me trouble. I'm not worried about changing out the fluid since I live in Ky. Summers aren't too bad here. Thanks for the help!

AKHeathen

to solve the mention on confusion of testing the fan clutch: it only releases in a certain operating range, and air must flow to the front of the clutch (spring) for it to see it, which means moving and air going through the middle of the radiator to said spring. when it is colder than the range, it spins the shaft to enguage the fan clutch and work the engine harder to heat up. once it is in range and driving, the spring centers the shaft where it is released. once it gets too hot, it will spin the shaft further to engausge the clutch to cool it down wiht the moving air. basically, in the end, if you get it up to operating temp, or just starting out, the fan is going to be engauged nearly every time you take off from a stop. i prefer electric fans for this reason. i'd ranther have full power any time i need it. it's kind of embarrasing when you try to pull on a ford 4.8 or honda and sound like you just flipped on a kirby robbing 30% hp.

GeoRoss

Don't throw your old fan clutch away if it is OEM or Aisin. It is really simple to change out the fluid and upgrade it.

GeoRoss

Are you saying that a viscous coupled fan clutch robs 30% of an engine's HP? While I agree there is some HP loss, a 30% reduction does not fit with my experience with Toyota engines. The people I know who switched to an electric fan in the 1FZE engines noticed no appreciable power gain. It may be more noticeable in the 22RE. This is all seat of the pants, no dyno data just the same mpg after the switch.

The fan is always turning, when the fan clutch spring reaches its operating temp it opens clutch valves so the silicon fluid enters and engages with the shear plates. The temperature that the spring sees is affected by what comes through the radiator, but ambient heat soak of the engine bay influences as well. The silicon fluid is always being pumped back into the reservoir and will stays in the reservoir if operating temps are not reached. Fan clutch engagement with Toyota fan clutches isn't an on/off. There are degrees of open in Toyota fan clutches, the ones I've seen have a 3 way. The fan is alway modulating the volume of air it moves based on temperature.



I am not a fan of electric fans (pun intended ). I have seen too many reports of fan controllers failing. Electric fans have their place. I just prefer the simplicity and robustness of a mechanical fan clutch and I'll trade that tiny bit of mpg for reliability.

87runner_

iTrader: (1)

GeoRoss,
Remember...AKHeathen is in Alaska. I'm sure his electric setup is more than adequate for his environment.

We here in AZ laugh at electric fans. AK's truck wouldn't last a day here in April...let alone July. Genuinely not trying to flame...just a fact. Seen it many, many times back when I owned my repair shop...someone from a colder climate believing their vehicle is in great mechanical condition drives to AZ and suddenly has overheating problems and they're shocked...completely unaware that in reality their cooling system barely works at all (ie: +40% plugged radiator, bad fan clutch or inadequate electric fan, excess internal corrosion, etc). It only takes a couple of blown head gaskets for people (like us) to gladly sacrifice some hp & fuel mileage for adequate, reliable engine cooling.

People in cold climates just don't realize...115*F weather is measured in the shade. The heat coming off the black pavement is +160*F...Yes, I've measured it with my infrared thermometer. THAT is the kind of heat a radiator has to contend with in Phoenix, giving you at most a 60 degree temp differential to cool that coolant with a 50-50 water/antifreeze ratio before boiling over...which is a tiny margin (w/ pure water it's even a smaller margin, albeit slightly more thermally efficient). You just don't see these temps in most parts of the world...and which is precisely why auto manufacturers have testing grounds in the hot AZ desert.

My one experience adding electric fans many years ago to an old Supra not only didn't cool enough despite running at max non-stop but also drained the battery & the car would die because the alternator just didn't put out enough juice to run everything. Horrible experience.

GeoRoss

I hear you on the AZ heat and engine cooling. I've gone out and found my underhood temps well north of 120˚ and I haven't started the car all day.

I've known plenty of guys experimenting with electric fans on the 1FZE. It is just hard to get a fan capable of pushing or pulling enough air to keep temps in the sweet spot in a desert climate. Couple that with controllers that fail or worse catch fire, no thank you. I've seen electric helper fans help with AC temps and the like, but a tuned fan clutch will win every time on volume. You can even tune them to the temperature you want them to kick in.

On the discussion of heat, I'm thinking that summer has finally broken its back down here in SAZ. I lived in Phoenix and I truly enjoy the 5-10˚ cooler it is here in Tucson.

We may still have a few days over 100˚, but I can feel fall in the air. Granted that morning fall air is still 80˚ before the sun comes up.

AKHeathen

make no mistake, my experience is not just in ak and city driving. i've worked on the most extreeme engines, generating more heat that you have ever seen. yes, the mechanical fan can rob so much power that you loose a street race by more than 2 car lengths where you would have won it by at least one with the fan off. i used ot live on the stats, like an alternator takes 30hp, etc.... and also operated in 100+ shade temps. i still stand behind electric fans when they work good over viscus cluthes. viscus thermostat clutches operate on the principal of vehicle movement for accurate temperature control. i've seen engines overheat at 60 below, etc..... and my truck would certainly make it in over 100 temps in az or wherever, just like my audi does with ac on....... if you don't loose 30% you must have a 3.4 or something more modern. the fan simply robs power. enough to think there is something wrong and turn off the radio to hear the fan going crazy at high rpm's. mr 87 don't think i don't know how to deal with heat. it's like thinking i live in an igloo with an 8 husky 4runner getting 46kibble to the mile on ice.... you have no idea what i;ve done or why i'm so sought after by locals. nearly 6figure income as a master mechanic specializing in prototyping and "unique" problems. i may like the cold, but i know my physics and electronics. if you cannot tell, i do take offense to your corelation of my location to the incurred inference of my skill. and fyi, if you want to go rock crawling in 115 degree weather there near phoenix, you are better off with an electric fan since 90% of your hard engine work is done with little actual movement and often articulated with little rpm, which would not be done well with a mechanical fan...... if you want your fan controllers to stop burning up, skip the junk yards and use something like they sell in jegs made for it, and not put a stock relay in a situation it was not designed for....

RJR

Just to clutter this discussion up with actual physics, a 30hp alternator at 90% efficiency and 13.5 volts would be delivering 30*746*.9/13.5=~ 1500 amps. Pretty healthy alternator, I'd say.

87runner_

iTrader: (1)

Someday when I make a nearly 6-figure income specializing in "unique" problems I'll have a 1500A alternator and a fan clutch that consumes 34hp from my 114 hp 22RE.



But I'll race ANY Honda or Ford 4.8...even a Ferrari in my 4Runner.
I get to pick the road.


"Thou doth protest too much, methinks." -Shakespeare