Grego92

iTrader: (4)

I've just completed my tearing down to do my timing chain on the 92' 22RE. I have 180K miles on it. The chain and other critical parts were replaced once already by a mechanic after I got the milkshake at 100K. I don't know if he removed the head when he did the repair. The receipt (7 years ago) says the "engine" was flushed and nothing about removing the head. I've had no problems since the repair.

I already purchased the 4 piece front end kit from Engnbldr.com and didn't anticipate doing the headgasket. Now that I've torn it down (some work) I'm wondering if I should just do the HG too.

My question is: Should I go ahead and change the headgasket while I have everything taken apart, or do you think the HG will last quite a bit longer like around 30-40k miles? I only put about 4K miles on it a year nowadays.

tacker

when was the last time the hg was replaced?

Grego92

iTrader: (4)

If it wasn't replaced by the mechanic who fixed my milkshake, then it is the original HG

toyota4x4907

Change the HG. Its not much more work once you get the timing cover off. Hell, you have to move the head or the oil pan to get the timing cover off anyhow. Its only another $100 or so (HG and 10 head bolts from the dealer)

Grego92

iTrader: (4)

I do have the timing cover off and just removed the the two oil pan screws and did not remove the head. I did not damage the head gasket during removal. I followed the two articles that everyone references here for a timing chain change, so it appears to be the norm to not remove the pan or head so long as you are doing preventive maintenance.

I guess my question is how long will that original oem HG last in anyone's opinion or experience, granted I don't screw it up when I reinstall the timing cover.

xxxtreme22r

180k on it, I would just change headgasket while your in there.

Grego92

iTrader: (4)

Some things got in the way and so all I've done to date is put back the oil pan correctly (FIPG - and I realize I should have waited until I put the timing cover back on first for easiness). However, during that time period I tracked down the mechanic who did the last work for two reasons. One, to ask him why he used a cork gasket and black rtv combo on the pan (he thought it was the right thing to do at the time, but he already knows now to use fipg). For the record though, the pan wasn't leaking, I just came across the cork and black rtv when I removed the timing cover. So then I said to myself how the heck am I going to get the timing cover back on without a big gap unless I use a new piece of cork for that portion of the pan or have a 1/4" thick of fipg. So I decided to remove the pan and do it right.

And two if he changed the head gasket when he did the work (he positively said he did and even back then he only used oem head gaskets). He kept assuring me that he did and asked me how the gasket looked where I removed the timing cover (it looked new still, but told him I didn't know just so he would keep talking ). And then he asked to look at the receipt, and then said "See! look how much I charged! I'm expensive because I do things right and with oem parts!" ! I didn't expect him to say that!

I'm going to believe him, he seemed truthful and sure of himself. Also, when I did the tear down, every single piece was oem (chain, water pump, timing cover, tension, oil pump, etc...) I guess he just screwed up not using fipg, but then again, it wasn't leaking either?!

I thought it was a funny story to share....but ANYHOW.....my question is concerning "Lumpy's" method of removing the pan - removing the bolts on the engine mounts and then ratchet straps around the crank shaft. I used that method and it worked, but I kept thinking am I bending the crank shaft? sure seems like alot of pressure?! Please tell me that it takes more than that to bend those things and that you've had no problems.....

yoterr

Takes quite a bit of pressure to bend a crankshaft...their pretty thick

mountaingoat

If it's a new HG in there, you might be just fine. On the other hand - I'd personally probably just do it all while you're in there, do the HG, and might as well do valve stem seals while you're at it. At 180k they are due.

Hell, you've got it that far apart - why not drop an Engnbldr cam in there at the same time?

I say this because I wish that I had done the valve stem seals and the new cam while I had mine apart at 197k to do the HG and timing set. Instead, I did them later which was just more time consuming and difficult. The parts aren't all that expensive, it's the time to take everything apart that's costly. Do it, and forget about it for a long, long time.

angrybob

Ugh. I don't know anything about this method and don't want to know. Seems very

A very simple and no risk way of removing the oil pan is to lower the front diff. Remove the diff mounting bolts - the large bolts that mount in the donuts - and remove the diff crossmember. Lower the diff with a floor jack and you will have all of the room you need to remove the oil pan...without fastening a ratchet strap to any internal engine part. Takes less than 10 minutes.

As far as the head gasket question, I was in your exact same situation when I did my timing cover/chain a year ago. My head gasket had been replaced by a PO (with receipt). I reinstalled the oil pan first which forced me to attempt to sandwich the new timing cover btwn the head (gasket) and the oil pan. I had no luck even being as delicate as possible. The HG bunched up and ultimately bent then fractured at the point where the gasket overhangs the block. Needless to say I had to replace the head gasket.

My advice if you want to keep the head gasket is to remove the oil pan again. Yeah, a little hassle but you will save time from having to do it again. You will have much greater success if the head or the pan is removed. If not I don't see it likely, as tight of a fit as mine was, to get a leak free joint. Since doing it right, my engine has been leak free for over a year now.

My $0.02

snobdds

I know it can be done without replacing the head gasket...but...I always tell people to replace the head gasket every time you do the timing chain. With OEM by the way.

Why do you think you had 70,000 miles of trouble fee driving?

Your already in the motor anyway?

Bob_T

Two ways of looking at this. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". If your head gasket was replaced not to long ago by a competent mechanic, and it sounds like it was, it will last a long time.

The other side of the coin is I changed my timing chain a long time ago, without changing the head gasket. Everything went OK, except I ended up with a very irritating oil leak between the head gasket and the timing cover that defeated all attempts to seal it. But the head gasket lasted another 100,000 miles or so (275,000 total).

toyospearo

Change it. I just did two Timing cover jobs and the owners both decided to do the head gasket. It's easy enough plus, like people posted, at least you'll have peace of mind knowing it's done

Grego92

iTrader: (4)

Well, kind of embarrassed to say this but I snapped a bolt in the timing cover. The "hidden" bolt. For some reason I was thinking the torque was 29lbs....it's 9lbs . I hung up the towel this morning after doing that and cussing at myself for an hour. I need to drop the pan again, and do it with the differential dropping this time....any pics of that anywhere? I have the factory manual, but I don't know what the donuts are. I think Chef has some photos, I'll have to search for that thread.

I did get it in pretty easily by leaving the head gasket in and not mucking anything up, but maybe this 2nd go around I'll change the HG out also.

angrybob

Been there with a different result. I simply snugged that bolt because my torque wrench does not go that low with a 1/4" drive ratchet. When you get the timing cover off, inspect the boss where that "hidden bolt" threads into. The cover itself can also crack if over-torqued...this I unfortunately know first hand.

The 'donuts' are the main front diff mounts that attach the diff to the chassis. You'll see it. Three total - Two horizontal & 1 vertical if i remember correctly. That and 4 crossmember bolts.

Philbert did a write-up on front diff removal with pics. Just stop at the point where it will lower.

Grego92

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for that info. Still haven't opened up the garage to take a look at that truck again. BUT, I did decide to do the HG change. I ordered the engine overhaul gasket kit part no. 04111-35360. So I'm committed now.

Why I didn't want to do the HG is because, I'm a little anal and will want to clean and paint every stink'n part that I take off! which will make the process drag on for months at the rate I'm able to spend on it.

Since you made me do it, you guys have to answer questions on my project as they come up! And you can't recommend any performance modifications or I'm going to end up having to buy them!

Grego92

iTrader: (4)

So I started tearing down, and someone educate me on whether I did this wrong or not.

In order to get the manifold off you have to disconnect the wiring all the way down to the 02 Sensor and pull it out through the manifold or plenum (not sure the name - passenger side below throttle body)?

I got the impression from the posts that is wasn't much more work since I had the timing cover off to just pull the head,I will say that isn't true (for me anyways) at all unless you guys are just leaving the manifold in place and unbolting it from the head while still in the engine? I also busted a couple of bolts in the head (not the head bolts) that sucks! Everything is off though....but I can't get the manifold off, all the bolts came off but the dang thing is stuck there even after hitting it with a rubber mallet? any ideas?

snobdds

Did you take the allen head bolt under the thermostat housing out. It trips up a lot of people.

There should only be about 4-5 conectors on the intake side of the engine. Then you push them through the lower intake and just flop them off to the side.

Grego92

iTrader: (4)

Thank You! No, I did not remove that bolt.

Yes, there were about 4-5 connections, but they didn't seem easy to remove and then I had to keep going up/down/up/down to help push the wires through the manifold as they kept getting caught on things and didn't want to yank hard on those old wires.

How much more work to pull the block out? I'm thinking of renting a hoist and then dropping the block off at the same machine shop I'm going to drop my head off for cleaning and checking. Maybe have them replace the piston rings? I didn't do a compression test before removing since I wasn't having a problem but my pistons are pretty gunked up - maybe burning oil?

snobdds

These engines are so easy to work on once you get going. The hardest part is getting to the top two tranny bolts below the head, but since you have the head off they should be right there.

I think there is 7-9 tranny bolts total and then it's just a matter of making sure everything is disconnected and lift.

With 22RE's, I don't mind pulling the engine to work on. It's not that much extra work. My dad's hunting truck is going under the knife once the season is over and that is what I plan on doing...just pulling the engine.