22re engine expertise needed
06-17-2008, 05:46 PM
#1
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22re engine expertise needed
86 $Runer 22re (I think I'm going to actually name it "Project MoneyRunner")
Ok I'm going to make this as short as possible. I bought a used engine of someone on TTORA that didn't exactly fit the description in the ad and is a complete piece of junk. I planned on this engine needing a timing chain, cover, and was going to do an HG etc. but it looks like the head has a few burnt valves and a flat cam, the rod bearings/wristpins are bad, and it has evidence of some pretty bad blow-by. We didn't even look at the cylinder walls yet or check rings. My mechanic says he wouldn't feel comfortable installing it and sending me away in a reliable vehicle (very trusted mechanic I might add, I used to work for him and he is a family friend).
So now, after I've spent my savings on a lot of little install parts, and the stuff I need for my 5 speed swap I'm seeing that I need to rebuild a engine. Luckily I've got him paid up in advance for $1000 so he is going to start working on the rebuild. Now that I'm going to be in this for $1000+ dollars more than I had planned on I'm thinking I want to build this engine up a little bit. From what I've understood you get the most power out of head/intake/exhaust mods in the 22re and not so much from boring the block out. Am I mistaken? I will be ordering parts from engnbldr and I already have the head gasket kit from him and a timing chain which I got on trade. I was always under the assumption that boring to .030 rather than .020 would yield me a little more power just in cubic inches alone (maybe minimal but still more). Am I wrong. Any ideas.
Another question. My current engine is actually in better shape in some ways than the one I bought stupidly off a forum to replace it. The only thing that worries me is that it had a bad antifreeze mixture and pushed a couple freeze plugs out over the winter. What are the chances the block cracked and wouldn't be good for a core? The reason I ask is I'd like to sell the engine I bought as a core and use my old core for the rebuild to cut down on my mechanics time, and also to fund my engine rebuild.
I gotta say there are some things that just shouldn't be bought off a forum. Also my stupid choice but the member I bought it from has been a member for some time with no negative feedback that I could discover through the forum. I thought it would be alright.
I can't bitch too much though, because now I will have a zero mileage 22re, and I'll be rid of my auto trans at the same time. Not to mention the fact that by the time the whole truck is put together, I'll actually be able to afford some tires, a rear locker, rear springs/bj spacers, and with luck a Marlin Crawler rear bumper (these are things I can install myself, I just suck with engines and transmission r&r plus I don't have the tools. My truck is also the most rust free 4Runner I've ever seen in person, with just a little surface rust on the top of the tailgate where the p.o. used to rest stuff on it.
Sorry I didn't keep it short but I'm frustrated
Ok I'm going to make this as short as possible. I bought a used engine of someone on TTORA that didn't exactly fit the description in the ad and is a complete piece of junk. I planned on this engine needing a timing chain, cover, and was going to do an HG etc. but it looks like the head has a few burnt valves and a flat cam, the rod bearings/wristpins are bad, and it has evidence of some pretty bad blow-by. We didn't even look at the cylinder walls yet or check rings. My mechanic says he wouldn't feel comfortable installing it and sending me away in a reliable vehicle (very trusted mechanic I might add, I used to work for him and he is a family friend).
So now, after I've spent my savings on a lot of little install parts, and the stuff I need for my 5 speed swap I'm seeing that I need to rebuild a engine. Luckily I've got him paid up in advance for $1000 so he is going to start working on the rebuild. Now that I'm going to be in this for $1000+ dollars more than I had planned on I'm thinking I want to build this engine up a little bit. From what I've understood you get the most power out of head/intake/exhaust mods in the 22re and not so much from boring the block out. Am I mistaken? I will be ordering parts from engnbldr and I already have the head gasket kit from him and a timing chain which I got on trade. I was always under the assumption that boring to .030 rather than .020 would yield me a little more power just in cubic inches alone (maybe minimal but still more). Am I wrong. Any ideas.
Another question. My current engine is actually in better shape in some ways than the one I bought stupidly off a forum to replace it. The only thing that worries me is that it had a bad antifreeze mixture and pushed a couple freeze plugs out over the winter. What are the chances the block cracked and wouldn't be good for a core? The reason I ask is I'd like to sell the engine I bought as a core and use my old core for the rebuild to cut down on my mechanics time, and also to fund my engine rebuild.
I gotta say there are some things that just shouldn't be bought off a forum. Also my stupid choice but the member I bought it from has been a member for some time with no negative feedback that I could discover through the forum. I thought it would be alright.
I can't bitch too much though, because now I will have a zero mileage 22re, and I'll be rid of my auto trans at the same time. Not to mention the fact that by the time the whole truck is put together, I'll actually be able to afford some tires, a rear locker, rear springs/bj spacers, and with luck a Marlin Crawler rear bumper (these are things I can install myself, I just suck with engines and transmission r&r plus I don't have the tools. My truck is also the most rust free 4Runner I've ever seen in person, with just a little surface rust on the top of the tailgate where the p.o. used to rest stuff on it.
Sorry I didn't keep it short but I'm frustrated
Last edited by Luvmeye22re; 06-17-2008 at 05:54 PM.
06-17-2008, 06:50 PM
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all i can say is yes and yes the head is where all the power is on the 22re's you get engnbldr oversized valves and dubble springs with his 268 or even 270 cam all for only about 250 bucks shipped and have a shop do the head for the valves and as for the block you can bor that thing out to a 5.0L you still wont have much more power then a stock one think about it you can have a big motor that can make 10,000hp but if it cant breath then how is it going to make that?
intake valves and head!!!!! then your talking!
hope it helps man
intake valves and head!!!!! then your talking!
hope it helps man
06-17-2008, 06:52 PM
#3
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I have a friend that just had his 22RE rebuilt, it was bored 0.30 over, has a crawler cam in it (he does alot of wheeling) and a Downey Header, this set up really gave his 4Runner some power, wich he needed with the 37" tires he has on it. It really comes down to what you want to do with your 4Runner, are you going to wheel it alot ?, or are you going to use it more around town or on the highway ?. if you use more on the highway then a midrange cam would be better.
06-17-2008, 06:53 PM
#4
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What a pickle!
Even a small chance of the block being cracked is enough to warrant getting it checked out.
As for the "new" block, anytime you bore over....even a little...means greater displacement. It may not be noticeable, but it's there. The larger you go, of course, means more still, but the trade off is mileage......so I'm told by those who've done it.
I'd inspect the new block and see if actually needs any work. That would save some money, if it didn't...
If it did, though, I personally couldn't tell you what the incremental differences would be....(i.e. .030>.020, etc.) Sorry. I do know the thinner the cylinder wall the weaker. So, you're choice. You could keep the boring to a minimum and go with a performance piston. Factory pistons have the cavity on the top, but using something with a flush surface or even domed (like what racers use) would allow for greater compression without getting the power out of cylinder displacement. However, I really don't know if pistons are made like that for 22re's. Hmmm.... might check into it. I've wondered if the factory style pistons couldn't be modified. Like filling in the cavity with aluminum or something. Ponderance abounds, in my w'ittle head...
The head....I don't know. It depends on what kind of money you want to spend. Engnbldr has lots of goodies, as you may be aware of. Oversized valves, cams, etc. Otherwise, you have only intake and exhaust to modify. Not much to that. I've read a few write-ups that say just by modifying the head and intake alone was a nice difference.
Hope this helps a bit.
Even a small chance of the block being cracked is enough to warrant getting it checked out.
As for the "new" block, anytime you bore over....even a little...means greater displacement. It may not be noticeable, but it's there. The larger you go, of course, means more still, but the trade off is mileage......so I'm told by those who've done it.
I'd inspect the new block and see if actually needs any work. That would save some money, if it didn't...
If it did, though, I personally couldn't tell you what the incremental differences would be....(i.e. .030>.020, etc.) Sorry. I do know the thinner the cylinder wall the weaker. So, you're choice. You could keep the boring to a minimum and go with a performance piston. Factory pistons have the cavity on the top, but using something with a flush surface or even domed (like what racers use) would allow for greater compression without getting the power out of cylinder displacement. However, I really don't know if pistons are made like that for 22re's. Hmmm.... might check into it. I've wondered if the factory style pistons couldn't be modified. Like filling in the cavity with aluminum or something. Ponderance abounds, in my w'ittle head...The head....I don't know. It depends on what kind of money you want to spend. Engnbldr has lots of goodies, as you may be aware of. Oversized valves, cams, etc. Otherwise, you have only intake and exhaust to modify. Not much to that. I've read a few write-ups that say just by modifying the head and intake alone was a nice difference.
Hope this helps a bit.
06-17-2008, 08:06 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
Well I am going to be fabbing a part to fit a K&N cone filter (The FIPK kit is $$$ and I'm a welder so....), and I am going to be getting a 2.25" exhaust bent up at the time of the engine install plus I already have a header so I will already have the simple stuff. This truck is going to get wheeled every weekend but will also be my DD. I live at 8000 feet and work at around 5500 feet with a 40 minute drive to and from work every day so I obviously spend a lot of time driving up one hell of a hill and any ounce of power will help. I know it's just a 22re but if I can kick another 20-50 horsepower into it I won't complain.
06-17-2008, 08:48 PM
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06-18-2008, 05:23 PM
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Going up to a bigger piston for horsepower gains, it is not very effective. 20 and 30 thousands of an inch is not very much at all, and if you expect more power from such a small size increase than you have it all wrong (nothing against you). The stock bore size is 92mm and .080 over only equals 94mm. So you can see how .020 and .030 over pistons would be a minimal size increase. Basicly not even noticeable. You CAN bore a 22R block .080 over but it is basicly pointless unless you are building a stroker motor.
The cylinder head is where you can free up the most hp. Ported with bigger valves makes a big difference. There is also not much of a point to put in bigger valves and not port the head. Cams make a little bit of a difference over stock but will work muck better with the head upgrades. Just stay away from long duration cams. The stock AFM is very restrictive and the stock ECU isn't great. Fuel injection mods are a good idea. Headers are a great investment as well as a FULL exhaust.
The cylinder head is where you can free up the most hp. Ported with bigger valves makes a big difference. There is also not much of a point to put in bigger valves and not port the head. Cams make a little bit of a difference over stock but will work muck better with the head upgrades. Just stay away from long duration cams. The stock AFM is very restrictive and the stock ECU isn't great. Fuel injection mods are a good idea. Headers are a great investment as well as a FULL exhaust.
06-18-2008, 06:04 PM
#11
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Thread Starter
Going up to a bigger piston for horsepower gains, it is not very effective. 20 and 30 thousands of an inch is not very much at all, and if you expect more power from such a small size increase than you have it all wrong (nothing against you). The stock bore size is 92mm and .080 over only equals 94mm. So you can see how .020 and .030 over pistons would be a minimal size increase. Basicly not even noticeable. You CAN bore a 22R block .080 over but it is basicly pointless unless you are building a stroker motor.
The cylinder head is where you can free up the most hp. Ported with bigger valves makes a big difference. There is also not much of a point to put in bigger valves and not port the head. Cams make a little bit of a difference over stock but will work muck better with the head upgrades. Just stay away from long duration cams. The stock AFM is very restrictive and the stock ECU isn't great. Fuel injection mods are a good idea. Headers are a great investment as well as a FULL exhaust.
The cylinder head is where you can free up the most hp. Ported with bigger valves makes a big difference. There is also not much of a point to put in bigger valves and not port the head. Cams make a little bit of a difference over stock but will work muck better with the head upgrades. Just stay away from long duration cams. The stock AFM is very restrictive and the stock ECU isn't great. Fuel injection mods are a good idea. Headers are a great investment as well as a FULL exhaust.
I am definitely not willing to make this a stroker, or bore anywhere near .080 because at that point I may as well do a low-ish mileage 3.4 swap, it wouldn't cost much more than a good 200+ hp 22re after an aftermarket efi system and all the related engine internals/labor. I'm not a genius with engines but I do see when to financially draw the line and seek out other options.
Last edited by Luvmeye22re; 06-18-2008 at 06:09 PM.
06-20-2008, 10:05 AM
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Alright...I talked to Ted at engnbldr and it seems the only advantage of porting is at the upper rpm range. There really isn't all that can be done. Bigger valves really help. With a cam, exhaust, and intake expect anywhere from 10-20hp. Then, add bigger valves and that would help too!
I hope this helped...because it helped me.
I hope this helped...because it helped me.
06-20-2008, 01:22 PM
#14
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Alright...I talked to Ted at engnbldr and it seems the only advantage of porting is at the upper rpm range. There really isn't all that can be done. Bigger valves really help. With a cam, exhaust, and intake expect anywhere from 10-20hp. Then, add bigger valves and that would help too!
I hope this helped...because it helped me.
I hope this helped...because it helped me.
engbldr. street head w/ 261c
lce header
flowmaster 40
downey intake
LCE intake mani/TB gaskets
LCE oil/water pump
stock ecu (megasquirt ecu coming soon)
stock NGK plugs
on a stock bottom end (169k)
good luck, with some mods you can pep the 22re up a little
06-20-2008, 01:59 PM
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i run pretty much that setup its a lot better than stock, get a a/f meter and see where you are at (or just read the plugs) i had to go 2 clicks richer with these mods-
engbldr. street head w/ 261c
lce header
flowmaster 40
downey intake
LCE intake mani/TB gaskets
LCE oil/water pump
stock ecu (megasquirt ecu coming soon)
stock NGK plugs
on a stock bottom end (169k)
good luck, with some mods you can pep the 22re up a little
engbldr. street head w/ 261c
lce header
flowmaster 40
downey intake
LCE intake mani/TB gaskets
LCE oil/water pump
stock ecu (megasquirt ecu coming soon)
stock NGK plugs
on a stock bottom end (169k)
good luck, with some mods you can pep the 22re up a little
But what do you mean two clicks? Clicking what???...lol. Sorry for such a stupid question
06-20-2008, 04:40 PM
#20
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yea 2 clicks richer on the AFM with my mods i was running a lil lean
check here
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/minutemods/afm/
check here
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/minutemods/afm/
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