CumminsTurbo4

Been surfing the forums for quite a while now and finally made time to join--great to be a part of the yotatech community! Truck is a bobbed '87 Toyota with new style ignition (squarish-style plug and not the round plug for those of you sitting out there that are already picturing the details in your mind), with electronics and no vacuum or centrifugal advance--don't ask me how it got on this truck, always thought it came stock but maybe someone swapped it on there?? Weber carb was recently added (to make things worse!) so I'm not sure if my ignition system is entirely to blame for the engine's poor performance or if it could be fuel/air related, too....but read on... I've searched numerous times so I don't post one of those redundant, "new to 22R questions", but I can't find the exact info I need anywhere, so here goes: 1. As luck would have it, my underhood decal is messed up RIGHT where the timing specs are listed. Can anyone share the exact timing specs for an 87 22R engine? I've seen numerous posts that state 0 BTDC at idle, but what exactly should the timing read at say 2000 rpm's or some engine speed off-idle? 2. I have checked, double checked, and triple checked the timing with a timing light, and I am not showing any "advance" of the spark when I increase the speed of the engine. It stays flat on 0. I thought the issue was my pickup coil (aka signal generator) but it has tested fine with a multimeter (225 ohms). Anyways, what else could be causing a "lack of spark advance" on an electronic style ignition? Is there some module or ignition component on the other side of the pickup coil that I'm missing here? Clymer manual doesn't mention anything either... Being cheap, I climbed around a junkyard and eventually pulled and bought an "old-style" distributor (with round plug) with mechanical (centrifugal) advance and vacuum advance. I disassembled it and found that the pickup coil appears to the same as the one in my newer style distributor. I am contemplating slamming this old-style unit on my truck and seeing what happens, but I read on one of the posts on yotatech that once gentleman said, "the entire ignition system must be changed out for the old style components if one is to use the old-style distributor"...is this true!? Since the plugs aren't the same, I figured I'd cut and splice the wires for the pickup coils and then route a vacuum tube to the vacuum advance and see what happens...but everyone else has recommended finding the issue with the electronic set up (I would if I could!!). Only way I can get the truck to run decent at all is to physically move the distributor so that the spark is advanced across the entire rpm band, which obviously results in poor drivability....therefore, your help is GREATLY appreciated!!!

myyota

With a 22R you need a vacuum advance distributor. You won`t get any advance from a distributor that came from a 22RE because the advance is controled by the computer. So you need to find a vacuum advance style distributor and install it and hook the vacuum advance to a vacuum source on the carb and that will fix your problem.

CumminsTurbo4

Thanks! What you're saying makes perfect sense!! I just can't understand how the previous owner (who I know) was driving the truck fine the entire time...only thing he had different on the truck was a stock carb and the EGR set up (now gone), but it ran and drove fine!. Then, once I ditched the EGR set up, got the Weber, and put a new timing chain and guides on, whammy...no advancing of the spark. Thought it might be my shadetree mechanic skills but the thing runs at low to mid rpm's beautifully with the entire distributor turned.
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Now, for the all important question: I have a stock 22R distributor here, but it has the round-style connector on the pickup coil. I was going to cut and splice the wires into the newer style connector wires that I have on my truck now, but I noticed this morning that they have a ground going between the place where it's secured on the inner fender to the end of the plug. Do I need to keep it? ALSO: Can I just swap on the old style 22R distributor?? SEEMS to me that adding the older distributor and just hard wiring it in won't work since the different model year trucks (from EFI to carb) have different pickup coil impedance specs. The 22RE pickup coil has a lower impedance spec than the 22R pickup coil. I think I know the function of the pickup coil, but how does it work?...maybe it would help if I understood that. Any input?? THANKS!

myyota

Im not good at explaining this stuff, but think of the pickup coil as a set of points and as the star looking wheel in the center (don`t know the name of this part) turns past it - it creates a signal to fire the ignition, like an on off switch. I hope that made a little bit of sense.

EricH87P/U

I recently noticed I have no vacuum advance on my distributor and for my 22r to idle i have to set my timing to 13 degrees maybe more. Also i found my idle set screw on the carb doesn't change anything when I adjust it. I am hoping all I need is the vacuum advance. I'm trying to decide whether should buy a new distributor or pull on at the junkyard. how'd yours work for you?

myyota

If you pull one from a junk yard make sure the vacuum advance is good (the vacuum part), if its bad its a very expensive part to replace. I had to replace this part once and it was a dealer only part and it was two hundred dollars.

CumminsTurbo4

Eric,

I'm trying to get to the bottom of this as I'm sure Toyota (like most manufacturers) probably installed numerous different types of ignition components on their trucks throughout the years...Does your pickup coil (the only small ~12 ga wires coming out of the distributor) have a square plug? What year is your truck? Can you post a pic? I'll try to get a pic of mine tonight for comparison....Thanks in advance to everyone for their input!

xxxtreme22r

why not have just bought a new distributor that already has the vac advance on it? $30 cheaper than just buying the advance unit and get a lifetime warranty.

EricH87P/U

I have a 87 pickup. I was told the motor was a rebuilt 85. needless to say i have no clue what this distributor is from probably a 22re. but there is no advance on it. and it has the round plug. here is a pic.

myyota

Your engine has the wrong distributor, any 22R engine has a vacuum advance on it, otherwise you get no ignition advance at all. The 22RE has no vacuum advance because the ignition advance is controlled by the computer.

EricH87P/U

I just put on a new distributor with a vacuum advance on it. Could anyone take a picture and show me how the vacuum lines are set up, as in which hose goes where. The previous owner soldered the two metal hoses next to the valve cover. I might cut the soldered tips off those or just run rubber hose all the way to the carburetor. any help appreciated.

xxxtreme22r

just cut the tips off. top tube is for the one furthest away from the engine, bottom one is for the one closest to the engine.

Mr.Utah

My 87' specs under the hood say 0 degrees btdc at 900 rpm with vacuum lines from distributor plugged. Idle speed is 700 for man. trans. and 750 for auto.

e.pritch

Sorry to steal the thread but I had the same problem. Only difference is I had a distributor that went bad with a round plug. I was in a bind and used a spare distributor I had laying around with a vacuum advance and a square ICM plug. FYI I have an 87 pickup with a Webber and no egr. I verified the #1 cylinder was tdc and the rotor was on the 1 wire.
The truck started and runs great now but it's running at 60degrees advanced. When I turn the distributor to retard the timing the engine cuts out and dies. I've searched the web of an answer with no luck. Does anyone have any ideas?

I also square plug out and attached to the ICM plug with connectors.