flyingbrass

I set my rocker assembly on my new head and noticed the valve adjusting screws aren't centered on the valves. I know that some misalignment is normal, but I'm not sure how much. Mine are all off to some degree, but a few are out enough to concern me.

How much misalignment is acceptable?

It would be easy to add in some shims. What do people use? Rocker shafts seem to be about 16mm and outside diameter of the stands where the arms ride about 23.4 mm. The two inner factory spacers' OD is about 26 mm. I notice McMaster-Carr has some 16mm x 22mm steel shims in several thicknesses.

the_supernerd

There was a recall for rocker arm spacers, but I am not sure of the affected years. If I remember correctly, the old spacers would eat into the rocker arms until they were offset and create a tick. Toyota made new 2 piece spacers that could be installed without removing the rocker arm assembly. The part number is 90561-16005.

slacker

iTrader: (1)

are you sure you have the spacers in the correct position ?



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cgeorge

Did you take apart the rocker assembly?

flyingbrass

I took the rocker assembly apart, cleaned it, and reassembled exactly how it was. Nothing is mixed up. I was very careful about that.

The adjusters on the arms riding against the inner factory spacers aren't off more than adjusters on arms riding directly against rocker towers. So, I assume the factory spacers are fine.

The adjusters didn't line up perfectly with all the valves on my old, factory head. That's normal and expected. With the new head some are more off-centered than before, and I'm wondering how far out they can be before problems arise. If I'm going to shim, now's the time.

flyingbrass

I don't have the head bolts in yet. I wanted some feedback on this first in case I decide to put in some shims.

I found an older post from Engnbldr saying he cuts shims out of bronze shim stock, so at least occasionally some shimming is being done.

All mine are off toward the bearing side of the rocker arms, as if the rocker sides are worn. They aren't, at least not enough to see, but that's the direction they are off.

I don't expect the screws to line up perfectly. I'm just wondering how far off is too far off or if being closer to center has an effect on anything. I found one post where a guy suggested the screws contacting the valve ends off-center was actually a good thing because it would allow the valves to rotate, distributing wear over the ends. I don't know enough to have an opinion about that.

cgeorge

gNarls - you are probably right...


What do you all think about removing the head bolts after they have been torqued down but the engine was never started? I was discussing this with a friend of mine and he seems to think it is OK as long as the motor was never started.. this conversation came because we were discussing replacing a cam after the head was installed. Just curious..

RustBucket

iTrader: (1)

I know of one instance where a guy had valve train issues after ~10k or more on a 22re - he removed the headbolts carefully, installed new rockers, torqued it back down, and everything was fine. Seems risky still.

cgeorge

I agree... but if it worked once for me - I'd try it again. Pulling the head takes me a while still..

flyingbrass

Engnbldr sent this, but didn't say how far off is too much.

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K...did you check the sides of the rocker arms for wear? We have seen that in the past. The other problem we see is the rocker stands bolted down without the alignment dowels in place at the bottom, those must be there.

I used to buy the shim stock in sheets, think it was about $6.00 and I just cut them out with good scissors, we noticed getting them dead center seemed to make the engines nice and quiet, smooth, but it has also been about 4 years now since I had them in my hands since I retired from the shop.
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I stuck feeler gauges around each rocker to estimate how far each is off center.

1 in: .049"
1 ex: .024"

2 in: .035"
2 ex: .035"+ (can't tell because the rocker is contacting the stem)

3 in: .043"? (same as above)
3 ex: .025"

4 in: .035"
4 ex: .045"

They are all off toward the wear side of the rocker arms, yet the arms don't appear to be worn. I don't see how tightening everything down will improve things. If a tower moves slightly one way (which it can't more than maybe a couple thousandths because of the locating dowels), the adjuster on the other side would be even more off.

Maybe even the ones most out of alignment aren't much to be concerned about. Here's #1 intake:







McMaster-Carr has a pack of 10 1" OD, 5/8" ID, .025" thick steel shims (part # 3088A413) for $4.62. I think those should work. I'll check the local Ace hardware store first.

flyingbrass

I sent Ted the numbers above. He replied, "We see .025" all the time, more than that would make me a bit nervous. No reason at all to not use steel [shims], should work fine."

flyingbrass

Curious whether my rockers are worn where they ride against the towers, I switched them around to have a fresh, unworn side as a bearing surface. I swapped #1's rockers with #2 and the same with #3 and #4. I'm using a new cam, so position shouldn't matter. I didn't remeasure, but some of the screws are still pretty far out.

The local Ace Hardware didn't have any shims, so I ordered some from McMaster-Carr.

flyingbrass

My shims arrived. They fit.





I put the rocker arms back in original order and put two shims against the two rockers tha thad adjusting screws farthest off center. I used one shim next to the other 6.

The screws line up better. Here's one with two shims.





However, now the pads of the rockers with two shims seem to be pretty far off to the sides of the cam lobes.







Of the other 6 pads, 4 line up well. Two are slightly off to the sides, but probably not enough to worry about. Here's a wider shot. The other half is the same deal.





So, I don't know what to do. Any advice? I'd consider taking Gnarly's bet, but a new head gasket costs more than the six pack I might win. Do the valve stems change position slightly after the engine has been cranked around a few times? I wouldn't think they should, but I have zero experience with this.

Is it better to have adjusting screws lined up with the valve ends or pads lined up with the cam lobes?

82broncoholic

nice build man ive been keeping track. i wanted to say that i am having the same problem with them not lining up. i am building a 21r so it a little different but im using the 20r head and cam but the 22r allum rollers or whatever they are called. i was wondering about the spacers u put to align them. do u think there will be heavy wear cause if they do wear out then they will track them selves back off the track. just wondering cause i am have been stuck at this point for 2 weeks

xxxtreme22r

In the words of someone else here (I think superbleeder) This is the point where I wouls say screw it an dbuy a whole new rocker assembly lol. You sure that cam is sitting in there right? Too far back/front. The jounrnal on the far right (Back?) seems like its not lined up right eithet. This is a new EB head?

In this picture, I don't know if it's just the angle, but the valve itself doesn't look like its sitting in there straight.

flyingbrass

The cams in my old head and new are in the same position.

I played with this a little more, moving rockers around and comparing how the assembly sits on my old head/cam and the Engnbldr head/cam. The head/cam combos are very close to the same, as in each rocker sits about the same on the lobes/screws.

Moving the rockers to different positions has practically no effect. If a rocker was crooked, switching them around as I have should have revealed that. They are fine.

The #4 exhaust cam lobe in particular just doesn't line up all that well with the valve, both on the old original head/cam and the new setup from Engnbldr. I guess that's just the way they are. Either the pad can be mostly lined up but the adjusting screw noticeably off, or the rocker can be shimmed over so the screw lines up nicly but the pad is way off. #1 intake is the same way.

Pad alignment seems more critical than screws being centered, so I'll use the rocker assembly as is, without any shims.

flyingbrass

Wear on the rocker sides shouldn't be different than if the rockers were riding directly against the towers. The shims I played with were the full diameter of the rocker sides, so there was full bearing area. If using smaller diameter shims, I can see how they might more easily wear into the rocker sides. Being fairly hard steel, I doubt the shims themselves would wear much against the towers, but I don't know for sure.

As I said above, I'm pretty much giving up on shims. Full pad contact with the cam lobes seems more important than the adjusting screws lining up with the valve ends (what I gathered from Ted). On my worst ones I can have one or the other, but not both, so I'm going for best pad position.

82broncoholic

ok... well i might just have to give them shims a try because mine are off on both and when i adjust for the pads then the cam lobes also line up so i guess its a win win for me on the lining up parts i quess its just trusting the shims to not wear themselves down. i guess its easy to check atleast just take the valve cover off. thanks for the help

flyingbrass

I have my old stock head with original cam still installed and a new Engnbldr head with 268 cam. The rockers sit about the same on each combo.

#4 exhaust in particular is poorly aligned on both. Moving the rocker over to make the adjusting screw more centered makes the pad even more misaligned with the lobe.

Putting a different rocker arm in that spot doesn't change anything.

Grego92

iTrader: (4)

Old thread, I know, but I have this same situation. Number 4 being the worse. I was just going to run it as is, but now that I've seen this post I'm curious to what the end result was for this.

Flyingbrass (hopefully you're still around) did you end up running as is? and has it been running fine?

How come that Gnarly guys posts are all deleted out? I see it every now and then on some good posts....I wish I knew what he was saying