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Hey folks,
I have been reading this forum for years but only just found a need to make a post as i cant find a solution to my latest Toyota problem.
I am down here in Western Australia, and have an 89 2-door 4Runner with a 22R. It's a great vehicle, i welded up a full length roof rack, it has alloy front bar, 12,000lb winch, few inches of lift, 32 inch mud tyres, upgraded alternator, 38 weber etc. I travel around the remote places of Australia in it.
Anyway, back to the problem: Twice now, but thousands of kilometers apart, when cruising at highway speed a loud 'flick-flick' flicking noise will come from the engine bay, lasting only 5-10 seconds and then the engine will cut out.
The sound is exactly like something being caught up underneath and flicking against the vehicle.
Once the engine cuts and i roll to a stop, when i crank it over the engine fires right up again and purrs away fine.
The first time this happened, the next day the PCV valve was faulty (end of cap fell off). I thought that the PCV valve must have failed and caused a vacuum leak etc etc.
But the second time this flicking noise happened the PCV is still fine (rattles when shaken). There are no obvious vacuum leaks, certainly none big enough to cut out the whole engine!
The mods to the engine are basically just a 38 weber carby, alloy radiator, electric fan, (a set of LCE headers is on the way).
I originally thought the timing chain had skipped a tooth, but that checked out fine, then perhaps some water had gotten into the fuel, caused some small backfires in the intake, blew out the PCV valve and then ran rough as there was a vacuum leak - but since the second time i don't think this is the case. I don't think it is an ignition problem, but it certainly kills the engine pretty fast. I have checked spark and timing and all the usual stuff and all seems fine. Basically now i am thinking some type of problem in the carby, could the loud flicking sound be in the carburetor? I checked the little butterfly plates and they all seem connected strong enough and both barrels open and shut fine with the throttle.
I am leaning away from a vacuum problem as it is highly intermittent, not like a constant leak, and the leak would have to be sizeable to kill the engine that fast.
Well that's all my theories, I am super glad i finally joined the forum. I should have been hanging out on here all the time, as not many people in Australia like the 22R engines, they say they are gutless and crap. I know they are not the most powerful engine, but they are super tough and 22R's have never left me thousands of kilometers from home because a ECU throws a fit! I am always reading about people in outback Australia getting stranded because some computer module frys itself! I have to buy parts from ENGBLDR in the US because all the aftermarket stuff i have seen here in Australia is cheap junk.
Righto, i would appreciate any pointers on what is causing this problem - as i have another 10,000km trip looming across Australia and need to get it sorted!
Thanks!
Sorry I don't have a solution or a direction to point you in but welcome to the forum. I'm sure some of these guys can help. How many kilometers/miles do you have on your rig? Tony
Thanks! Interesting truck in your profile pic. There are so many laws down here when modifying a licensed vehicle, and the police are always yellow stickering 4wds for little things like tyres sticking out, worn gearstick numbers, exhausts etc.
Yeah my 22R has almost 300,000km on it (we use metric here in Australia!.. but i still use 'inches' in the shed)
But the head only has about 20,000km on it.
I had to leave the Runner in the shed today and drive to work in a Mitsubishi!!! Not a good look! :O
I was thinking that the problem could be the carby, but then wouldn't the vehicle jump around a bit as the clatter noise started up. When the noise starts the vehicle doesn't jump or run rough it just fades out - like a total loss of vacuum...
Maybe some type of intermittent loss of fuel, causing the engine to run lean and the flick/sharp pop could be backfires in the intake. As the noise definitely sounds like it is coming from the intake side of the engine.
The fuel filter is reasonably new and i have inspected it for gunk, and i cleaned the other little filter at the intake on the weber. The problem is, it is hard to test a solution to the problem as it has only happened twice in a couple of thousand kms and i cant replicate it manually...
Wow! My first post on yotatech and i appear to have stumped the community!
It must be a strange 22R problem, probably caused by all the tracks down here in oz being rougher than the American tracks. :O
I have a few thoughts on this, just wondering if anyone more knowledgeable can verify:
- A lean condition can make a 'popping' backfire noise in the intake?
- Has anyone heard of a piece of debris being picked up in the fuel intake in the tank, suction holding it onto the end of the intake, then the engine cuts out because not enough fuel can be pumped up, then the debris drops back down into the tank. Then this whole thing could happen again at intermittent intervals?
I have had the tank dropped before when i was plumbing up my aux tank, but i did not see the pickup lines - Could someone enlighten me on what the lines have on the ends of them - some type of cage filter perhaps? Is the pickup right on the bottom of the tank to suck the last drop of fuel out?
I was thinking of draining out the fuel (hopefully with the debris in it) and dropping the tank, pulling out the fuel lines, cleaning the ends, and blowing back up them from the fuel pump end with compressed air...
On a side note, i have been watching a TV series down here in Australia called 'Alaska Offroad Warriors' - the tracks up there are pretty hairy! Much more mud up there then down here - something to do with the permafrost apparently.
Thanks!
Yup my tank has a drain hole i will use to drain the fuel. But due to the nature of the problem, i will probably drop the whole tank as well and inspect the pickup lines.
I have been googling around but haven't found anywhere that said there is any type of filter on the end of the pickup line in the tank.
Maybe it's just an open pipe straight up to the fuel filter...
I would drop the tank this arvo but i have a Hilux with another 22R in the shed at the moment, has a clutch problem and a leaky rocker cover. The rocker cover gasket is easy but i think the clutch master cylinder is letting out pressure internally as there is no loss of fluid.
If I remember correctly on my 86 4Runner when I switched over from EFI to carb, the feed line had a flat style screen on the bottom of the pipe. The return and vent had none. The screws on top of the tank are a pain to remove. I actually broke my return pipe at the top of the tank as it was very rusted.
Also on my 86 under the rear seat was an access panel to the top of the tank. It's an option, to not have to drop the tank. I don't know if y'all have rust there but I sheared off two bolts on my tank trying to remove it.
In the quest to find the source of the click noise that caused my engine to stop, i came up with another theory.
That the click noise was coming from the fuel pump (which could be the original on the engine) and that when it was clicking it was not pumping fuel and the engine then dies soon afterwards. This fits my symptoms pretty well. IF the fuel pump is faulty intermittently... as it runs fine most of the time.
I then thought i would pull the rocker cover to check the cam that runs the fuel pump, as this cam would make a click-click-click noise on the lever of the fuel pump if it was hitting it but not making normal contact - thus not making the pump work. I found that the cam on the end of the camshaft was hitting the head.
I have attached a pic that shows that when the cam lobe is in full downward position it has left a small groove on the head - near the distributor drive gear.
Now i installed the timing chain kit (sprockets etc) from ENGBLDR and they all seemed to fit fine. But now the fuel pump cam seems to be about 1-2mm too far forward. Yet, there doesn't appear to be any space between the sprockets, cam etc.
To be honest, i don't recall if the cam lobe was sticking this far forward when i had finished installing it or if it has moved forward since.
I don't know if this problem is just a coincidence or has something to do with cutting fuel and making the engine stop. The engine runs sweet most of the time.
Does anyone remember if the fuel pump has a slot where it cant turn on the camshaft? Just wondering if it hit the head and stripped something and now the fuel pump cam intermittently not turns fully? Also, why on earth is it even that far forward???
Thanks guys.
02-20-2017, 04:47 PM
I should have been hanging out on here all the time, as not many people in Australia like the 22R engines, they say they are gutless and crap. I know they are not the most powerful engine, but they are super tough and 22R's have never left me thousands of kilometers from home because a ECU throws a fit! I am always reading about people in outback Australia getting stranded because some computer module frys itself! I have to buy parts from ENGBLDR in the US because all the aftermarket stuff i have seen here in Australia is cheap junk.
