spokane.yota.man

hi guys. my 87 22r has been progressively running worse over the years (i only drive a couple times a month). so i did a compression test and cylinder number one was zero. not just close to zero, it was zero, nada, nothing. 2 was 140, 3 was 140 and 4 was 130 (about 6 compression strokes each). i know those numbers are not good either, but better then zero. i confirmed cyl 1 was bad by starting vehicle then unhooking #1 plug wire, no change. the spark plug looked good, about the same as the rest. it wasn't all oiled up. so if my piston rings were the cause of the problem, i would expect the plug to be oily. is that right? i don't drive it enough to see if its burning oil, but it doesn't smoke. the coolant also looks good, no oil mixed. i'm thinking its a stuck valve or hg problem. i plan on tearing into it this weekend to further diagnose but i would like some advice before then if possible. i plan on pouring in a little oil to see if that helps and to check the valve clearances before removing the head. i'm really shocked i was down a cylinder, it ran bad but not so bad i would have guessed i was down a cylinder. the engine has 230k so i just thought it was really showing its age. the head was rebuilt 5 or 6 years ago. if i had a good running 22r to compare it too i'm sure it would have been more evident though. at 230k i know its time for a new engine but if it was bearable with 3 cylinders i think its got some life left if i get #1 back. so im hoping the block is good and a new head will solve my problem. i can't justify 1200 bucks for a new motor right now but i could justify 400 for a new head. any thoughts? thanks.

hilandfrog

I think stuck valves would give one zero on a compression test too????

Perhaps something as simple as a stuck valve ??

Repo

xxxtreme22r

if you can get a leakdown test done on the engine it will tell you rings or valves. But if you don't hear a bunch of rapping in the engine ie piston slap I would lean towards valve as well. But a hole in a piston doesn't always make a noise.

by leakdown I don't mean putting oil into the cyl and compresion testing either. If 0 psi is the case, I doubt any amount of oil you put into the cyl is gonna bring the psi up.

Also 140-130 is kinda low as well man. 150 psi is the lowest the FSM states. Personally I think $400 on a new head + $$ for a gasket kit is just a waste.

A new head on an old bottom end that is showing signs of wear ie 130psi can also lead to even more bottom end issues as well. Making it x2 the waste of $$ that I had mentioned.

spokane.yota.man

thanks for the info. i'm not sure what a leakdown test is but i'll look more into that. also my fsm (for 88 22r) states 142 psi min w/ less then 14psi change per cylinder. i'm just under the 142 min, the 130 was on cyl 4 which is a little harder to work with so i'm curious as to if i didn't have as good a seal on that one (hope so anyways). the engine was also cooled down by the time i got to 4 (spent too much time on 1). so i wonder if that made the reading better or worse? a few more compression strokes on ea cyl might have got me to that 142 min also. i agree that a bad block with a good head wouldn't be the best investment. so i'm hoping i could get all 4 cylinders to the min psi. i was also leaning towards the oil in cyl test not doing much good. so i'll probably just check valve clearance to rule that out and then remove the head. from there i'll decide whats next.

sam333

The most common thing to cause 0 compression is a burnt valve.

But pull your valve cover and look for anything obvious first.

If you dont have a leakdown tester you can pull all the plugs except on your 0 cylinder. Dissable your ignition and fuel like you are doing a regular compression test and have someone crank the engine over while you listen, the leak will be obvious( you will hear air moving out the exhaust or intake or out the dip stick hole).The exception would be a holed piston.

Or if you have a compressor you can bring the 0 cylinder to TDC on the compression stroke and just blow air into the plug hole( the leak again will be obvious).

Like xxxtreme22r said a leakdown test is best. You can order a leakdown tester online, I dont know if many local auto parts carry them yet.

Whatever you do it sounds like you will have to pull the head.

kiyobrown

I know you said you can't justify 1200, but keep in mind you have a good rebuilder in your neighborhood. So if you open up the valve cover and it doesn't look good, do the math and remember your compression is already low in the other 3, so even if you threw a $400 bandaid on it you are still running a tired motor. I just threw in a motor from these guys, and its got some pep in it. pretty happy with it so far.

http://www.sunwestautomotiveengines.com/lb-toyota.html

xxxtreme22r

there was a spike or speed channel show that showed how to make your own leakdown tester using an old spark plug. I have never done it though. Just throwing that out there. Not sure if it was Extreme4x4, Trucks, Gears or what ever but it was one of those shows. To do it yourself though you will need an air compressor. And capable of at least 100psi or so I think.

spokane.yota.man

thanks for the info. i already pulled the valve cover and at first glance everything looked fine. i found the compressed air tip so i'll try that. i'm not going to bother with buying a leak down tester for now cause i plan on taking off the head anyways. that should answer my questions, hopefully. i probably won't have time to pull the head until this weeked (60hr work weeks + wife and kid don't leave much free time). i too suspect a burnt valve, there have been several times in the past few years where the truck sat for a month or two, could have happened on start-up.

thanks kiyo, i know of sunwest, that is who i plan on buying a new motor from eventually. i've heard good things of them and their prices and warranty are very good. if i decide the motor is too far gone then it will sit for a while until i have the time and the extra cash to buy from them. i'm hoping i can get by another year or so by just fixing what i got. this truck just does the ocassional home depot trip, but i'd like to get it running better. i decided if the #1 cylinder is good enough (no major damage) then i might try a cheap rebuilt head. i found some good feedback sellers on ebay with rebuilt 22r head for $225. if that got me a year of it running ok i'd be happy with that.

i'll post results as i find them. thanks guys!

spokane.yota.man

alright im pulling the motor. do i have to do anything with the clutch when pulling the block? like unhook the slave cylinder or something? i haven't been inside the bellhousing in a long time and can't remember what all is going on in there. thanks.

xxxtreme22r

only thing I think I rememeber on mine, was the slave cyl bracket from the block/support bracket has to be undone. But nothing clutch related. No lines need to be unhooked or anything.

spokane.yota.man

sweet, thanks. that's kind of what i thought but wanted to double check. the fsm says to remove the entire tranny for block removal. no thanks. i'll have pics soon!

xxxtreme22r

that's just cus it makes it "easier" to line up during reinstall of the block. To which I say if I wanted easy I would pull the motor, trans/transfer all in one shot. Assuming I had the room to do it. But then you still have to deal with bleeding clutch lines etc etc, no thanks haha.

spokane.yota.man

alright, got the engine out... now i have to decide what to do with it. here it is coming out


as it sits now


won't be seeing the road for a while


cylinder 1, this one had the zero compression. not pretty.


2, 3 and 4 looked about the same.


head, #1 and 2


#3 and 4

spokane.yota.man

whoops my post got cut off. edit coming!

spokane.yota.man

as far as cylinder one having zero compression it wasn't really obvious what the problem was. the valves weren't obviously stuck or damaged. so i still have to inspect them a little further. since the compression on the others were not great to begin with i know a rebuild is the way to go. i've read lots of threads about rebuilding the 22r so i have an idea on difficulty and cost. i'm not worried about the difficulty i can handle that. cost and time are more of an issue. although i'm not in a huge hurry to get the truck back on the road but i am very busy and will only have a few hours a week to work on it. cost wise a new motor is not at the top of the list (or should i say the wife's list ). for me the hardest thing to swallow cost wise is the machining. so following this guys build i think i can keep it out of the machine shop
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f115...cement-157151/

i'm thinking of using the flex hone method. i found this thread about it and even *EB himself said it works well.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=608385

i also read a post about some having a harder time with chrome rings sealing so that led me to decide i'll go with iron rings.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...ealing-215113/

i know they don't last as long but this truck will honestly probably only see 1000 miles a year. so longetivty is of no concern. i only put about 5000 a year on my dd. people were quoted saying "iron rings will seal a post hole" so i think a flex hone and iron rings would work well. my cylinders on first inspection looked good. no obviously damage. i will take the time to further inspect everything once its all apart of course but as of now i'm leaning towards the flex hone. i will get some quotes from machine shop so i haven't ruled that out completely. $300 for the parts, and $400 for a eb head has already maxed out what i wan't to spend. i would expect machining to add another couple hundred. i'd rather go cheap on this rebuild and in a few years spend the big bucks and put in a nice performance 22r. so let me hear it, is that not a terrible idea given my expectations and budget? thanks.

Blue 89 Runner

If I were in your shoes, I'd do it up the way I want it the first time around !!

Blue 89 Runner

Looking at your pics I say you need to add some fuel additive or start burning some better stuff in there. Also, almost looks like that #1 exhaust valve might be sitting up in there a bit further then it should be maybe ?

sam333

Yeh , you can see that #1 was not firing and valve does look recessed. Check the valve clearance on #1 , might be zero.

xxxtreme22r

kinda hard to accurately check valve clearance once the head if off the block.

spokane.yota.man

Thanks for the input. I quickly checked valve clearance on #1 when engine was warm right before I started pulling it. It was less then spec. Didn't look more into it though, just yanked the whole thing! I'm doing a lot of research and I'm really leaning towards a flex hone and new rings. Iron ones, maybe Npr? Still have more to look into on that. Then just new bearings, gaskets and timing set. Also a new Eb head. If all the internal stuff looks good of course. I'll check the specs on everything when I get it apart, hopefully by Sunday.