wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

After searching and reading all the posts on the subject the parts needed are easy to round up.

My question is what % braking performance is gained is there a real increase in brake performance. Or is this just one of those things to keep up with the guy down the street.

thanks

raddude666

personally i think its a waste of time it doesnt help much the 4 cyl brakes are pretty good actually

RBX

Check out Corax's thread about putting on T-100 brakes. I can tell you my brakes on the v6 absolutely stink. I think the PO stuck new pads on worn rotors. I have a T-100 sitting in a local yard i am going to yank tha calipers and booster from, i already took the MC.

xxxtreme22r

have you done the 1" master/dual diaphragm booster yet? Made a huge improvement on mine. I can only imagine if/when i go to the T-100 calipers/rotors. And this was with new rotors/pads before the upgrade.

On a side note, he did say 1st gen 4runner, do you mean SFA or IFS 1st gen? Does it matter brake wise?

RBX

It IS in the 86-95 section....

xxxtreme22r

Yeah yeah. It's the morning you know how I am not enough

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

Running big tires it is a necessary upgrade IMO.
V6 calipers, vented rotors, brake booster with larger bore MC even rear discs.
Simple physics proves it works better.
I upgraded my 87 when it was time for brakes and it was a noticeable improvement.
I wouldn't upgrade unless running larger than 31" tires.

:wabbit2:

corax

If you don't really know if you need bigger calipers and rotors, then you probably don't. I've towed 2 tons over the Rockies and coast to coast 3 times now and can appreciate the additional capacity on the downhill side. If you're looking for a little improvement, buy a quality set of brake pads - I like Hawk LTS pads.

RBX

not that this is totally relavant..but....
I upgraded my bike brakes(front) from 310mm to 320mm(yes that is just 10mm OR 1cm) the difference was incredible, and then i upgraded the MC to a radial...WOW...single finger braking with lots of feedback.
While a truck has WAY more mass, the principles are still the same.

c0ugar69

I run 31" tires and did the upgrade and it made a huge difference, get a brake Master Cylinder from a 2gen runner v6 and some v6 calipers 2nd gen also and install you will be amazed at the inprovement. get the booster also with the MC as it will be dual diaphram. i found one on ebay mc with booster for 50.00 there is some good deals there sometimes.

RBX

I havn't done the booster yet, but are you saying the 2nd gen 4Runner has the larger dual diaphram? v6 of course.

thanks

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

I have no need of this it was just for general information wanted numbers to see if anyone has tested this. To be able to tell people it gives you a 1.5% increase in brake pressure.

Has anyone had all new stock parts say less then 1000 miles and done this upgrade It has been a good many years since my hydraulics class to sit down and do the math.

To get the real numbers.

Thanks

c0ugar69

yea 2nd gen has dual diaphram booster and the 1"MC v6, thats what i have on mine works great.

angrybob

^^ +1 ^^

I've been thinking about this mod too as my '87 4Runner has the original size brake parts but 33" MT-R's. Seems as if you need a 92+ 4Runner (same as T100) to get the 45mm 4-pot calipers, 1" m/c, and tandem booster.

Its not even hydraulics at this point:
* Caliper upgrade goes from a 41.6/34 bore to a 45.2/45.2 bore - Piston area goes up by 41%
* Rotor diameter is the same
* Can't help on the booster advantage because I don't know the size of either booster
* M/C goes from 13/16" to 1"
* Needed to push more fluid req'd by the bigger calipers
* Pads - depends on how much add'l friction the new pads have but straight percentage gain

Without knowing the booster characteristics, there's no real way of putting a number to the gain. They are tuned specific to the brake system and no two vehicle systems are alike.

Pads and possibly the tandem booster (if its a direct fit to the 13/16" m/c) are the only things you should change by themsleves.

Throw bigger calipers (without a bigger m/c) at it and you will have more output but you will also have a much longer stroke

Throw a bigger m/c alone (w/o bigger calipers) and you will get a shorter stroke, but you will also have to push a lot harder on the brake pedal to get the same pressure as before

For the moment, I'm leaving mine alone. Its a weekend Toy and I don't haul anything. It already locks up easy enough. I find the squishy brakes are easier to modulate on the trails and rocks too. My first step will be to throw some higher output pads at it if ever needed.

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Here's a dumb question:

Are MC's pretty much the same across makes/models, as far as hardware used to mount to the firewall, and the brake lines mounting up? I'm just thinking of clutch MC's and how universal they seem to be....

I have an 87 4runner with 32s. Brakes are OK but leave me wanting a little more in some situations.....are there only certain *Toyota* models that would be plug and play for an upgraded booster/MC/calipers? 2nd gen 4runners and tundras are mentioned above, but what about other, later models (3rd gen 4runner, tacoma, sequoia, etc)?

angrybob

Not across makes because the auto maker usually owns the tooling to all of its parts to keep them exclusive.

As far as across models, usually only platform vehicles will share parts. Its possible that parts from new models fit the previous, but no so common beyond that. Even if calipers have the same mounting bolt spacing, the offset of the rotor may be different...as an example.

It usually takes a forum guy with some ingenuity to figure out this kind of stuff.

corax

Here's a thread on another forum with a bunch of research I did on the different bores/mounting of master cylinders. All the 4 hole mount master cylinders are interchangeable:

86.5 - 89 Supra = 1" bore, 4 hole mount
82- 86.5 CelicaSupra = 15/16" bore, 4 hole mount
86 - 89 4runner = 13/16" bore, 4 hole mount
90-95 4runner = 1" bore, 4 hole mount
96 - ? 4runner = 1" bore, 2 hole mount
~91 - 95 MR2 = 7/8" bore, 4 hole mount

ToyoTech559

you guys that "NEED" the upgrades are driving to fast to red lights lol.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

When doing this upgrade does every body replace the brake hoses if they have not been replaced in the last 6 months or so.

Front and rear.

Just replacing the rubber hoses about 2 weeks after a stock brake replacement made a big difference.

The hoses were fine just old and tired.

RBX

^^^Never replaced mine, but i plan on doing this when i upgrade the fronts, and add discs to the rear.