1995 4Runner Problem - Dies while running - now won’t start
10-14-2009, 01:51 PM
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1995 4Runner Problem - Dies while running - now won’t start
Hello all.
I am very new to the forums, but have been doing a bit of reading here. I really appreciate all the information you guys have provided, but unfortunately i have not found any threads that directly relate to my problem.
My girlfriend purchased this truck without knowing much about it’s history. However from the records it would appear it has had significant engine work done in 1999. The work order states : Engine R&R & R/B, Basic. As well as Extra Performance parts; Camshaft, exhaust header, free-flow “monza” exhaust. Rebuilt used 32:36 DGV downdraft weber carb. The total was 3,500.00 dollars. I do not know what all this means exactly, but I’m assuming it has a replacement 3vze engine with some customizations done to it. The car doesn’t perform any better than my 1989 4runner w/ a 3vze which I have used as my primary for the last 5 years with little to no problems keeping it runningThe owners before us had recently put in a new catylic converter and radiator soon before selling.
The car seemed to run just fine when she purchased it, but soon after it would die at random times. We could be doing 70 on the highway, sitting at a light, or driving up dirt roads and it would just die. It would then take several minutes before the engine would run again. Sometimes the problem would come back in a matter of minutes and sometimes it would go away for 5+ hours of drive time. Sometimes the check engine light would come on and the truck continued to run fine. I notice the problem is more likely to occur on a half of a tank of gas or less.
I took it to Kragen and used their loaner diagnosis tool to get the engine code. It was reporting a DTC 14 - Ingition Reference/No Signal. Also DTC25 Mixture Control Continuously Lean.
I do not know if my problem is electrical or with the fuel system or both. Once while driving it down a grade it died on me. I pulled over and was unsuccessful at starting it. I then coasted down the grade hoping to pop the clutch which failed as well. I then left it in 5th gear and coasted because at least my accessories would work and I had power steering and brakes, but the engine would not run. After about 5 minutes I tried to start the engine while still coasting and quickly realized the engine had engaged itself again. (Got the sound when you try to start your car and it’s already started). After that it ran perfect for the rest of the day, even back up the steep grade. Once while driving through town on a low tank of gas and the car almost died and then became very jerky and acceleration would not work. I know it was not out of gas though. I made it to a gas station and put more gas in and it started up and ran fine again, but died again soon after. I have tried treatment for water in the tank but this did not solve the problem. I have also tried a new fuel filter, distributor, wires, and plugs with no success. I have recently driven it home (less than a half tank of gas) and parked it in the driveway which left it facing downhill. Now I can’t get it to start at all. It will turn on and then die immediately (less than 2 seconds). If I try again it will not even turn back on. If I wait a few it will turn on and then die again in less than a second.
Now I’m really at a loss. I’m planning on trying a different mass air flow sensor. I read these can short and cause problems. I'm also going to try a differnt EFI Relay. Troubleshoot ignition circuits. Try a new igniter if that fails. Try a new ECM if that fails.
Do i appear to be on the right track? Can anyone make sense of all this? Is there anything I’m overlooking? I appreciate any help in advance. I would really like to reassure my girlfriend she did not waste her money on this car.
I am very new to the forums, but have been doing a bit of reading here. I really appreciate all the information you guys have provided, but unfortunately i have not found any threads that directly relate to my problem.
My girlfriend purchased this truck without knowing much about it’s history. However from the records it would appear it has had significant engine work done in 1999. The work order states : Engine R&R & R/B, Basic. As well as Extra Performance parts; Camshaft, exhaust header, free-flow “monza” exhaust. Rebuilt used 32:36 DGV downdraft weber carb. The total was 3,500.00 dollars. I do not know what all this means exactly, but I’m assuming it has a replacement 3vze engine with some customizations done to it. The car doesn’t perform any better than my 1989 4runner w/ a 3vze which I have used as my primary for the last 5 years with little to no problems keeping it runningThe owners before us had recently put in a new catylic converter and radiator soon before selling.
The car seemed to run just fine when she purchased it, but soon after it would die at random times. We could be doing 70 on the highway, sitting at a light, or driving up dirt roads and it would just die. It would then take several minutes before the engine would run again. Sometimes the problem would come back in a matter of minutes and sometimes it would go away for 5+ hours of drive time. Sometimes the check engine light would come on and the truck continued to run fine. I notice the problem is more likely to occur on a half of a tank of gas or less.
I took it to Kragen and used their loaner diagnosis tool to get the engine code. It was reporting a DTC 14 - Ingition Reference/No Signal. Also DTC25 Mixture Control Continuously Lean.
I do not know if my problem is electrical or with the fuel system or both. Once while driving it down a grade it died on me. I pulled over and was unsuccessful at starting it. I then coasted down the grade hoping to pop the clutch which failed as well. I then left it in 5th gear and coasted because at least my accessories would work and I had power steering and brakes, but the engine would not run. After about 5 minutes I tried to start the engine while still coasting and quickly realized the engine had engaged itself again. (Got the sound when you try to start your car and it’s already started). After that it ran perfect for the rest of the day, even back up the steep grade. Once while driving through town on a low tank of gas and the car almost died and then became very jerky and acceleration would not work. I know it was not out of gas though. I made it to a gas station and put more gas in and it started up and ran fine again, but died again soon after. I have tried treatment for water in the tank but this did not solve the problem. I have also tried a new fuel filter, distributor, wires, and plugs with no success. I have recently driven it home (less than a half tank of gas) and parked it in the driveway which left it facing downhill. Now I can’t get it to start at all. It will turn on and then die immediately (less than 2 seconds). If I try again it will not even turn back on. If I wait a few it will turn on and then die again in less than a second.
Now I’m really at a loss. I’m planning on trying a different mass air flow sensor. I read these can short and cause problems. I'm also going to try a differnt EFI Relay. Troubleshoot ignition circuits. Try a new igniter if that fails. Try a new ECM if that fails.
Do i appear to be on the right track? Can anyone make sense of all this? Is there anything I’m overlooking? I appreciate any help in advance. I would really like to reassure my girlfriend she did not waste her money on this car.
Last edited by easy-3vze; 10-17-2009 at 11:33 PM.
10-14-2009, 04:59 PM
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Welcome to yotatech.
I would find out if your 89 3vze has the same efi as the 95. If it does you can swap parts to diagnose the problem. I have two 1990 4runners with the 22re and it is very helpful being able to swap parts.
It sounds like the igniter because of the code you got, but the symtoms also sound like fuel pump.
Sorry I couldn't be more help, I mostly work on the 22re.
I would find out if your 89 3vze has the same efi as the 95. If it does you can swap parts to diagnose the problem. I have two 1990 4runners with the 22re and it is very helpful being able to swap parts.
It sounds like the igniter because of the code you got, but the symtoms also sound like fuel pump.
Sorry I couldn't be more help, I mostly work on the 22re.
10-14-2009, 05:52 PM
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1st check your Fuel pump, the wiring to it. Then try the EFI relay just get one from a wrecker way cheaper, while your at it get a Circuit Opening Relay just incase. sounds electrical. or maybe your injectors are dirty...
10-15-2009, 11:24 AM
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I tried a new Relay for the EFI - Swapped w/ a FAN relay. - No Luck
Then i went to try the AFM from my 89 4runner. I noticed while taking the AFM out of the 95 4runner, the hose connected behind it, was not clamped. It was on, but hose clamp was not tightend. I decided to replace the AFM anyway. Once i had the new one in tried to start the truck and it still died out. I then realized that I forgot to tighten the same exact hose clamp. Once i did tighten it, the truck started right up. I then turned it off and back on a few more times, w/ no hesitations.
Then i went to try the AFM from my 89 4runner. I noticed while taking the AFM out of the 95 4runner, the hose connected behind it, was not clamped. It was on, but hose clamp was not tightend. I decided to replace the AFM anyway. Once i had the new one in tried to start the truck and it still died out. I then realized that I forgot to tighten the same exact hose clamp. Once i did tighten it, the truck started right up. I then turned it off and back on a few more times, w/ no hesitations.
Last edited by easy-3vze; 10-17-2009 at 11:14 PM.
10-17-2009, 11:26 PM
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Since fixing the hose clamp the car seemed to be running good again. I cleared the stored codes and added some fuel injector cleaner. However today after driving it around a bit, it died just as i accelerated in the drive thru. By the time i got it pushed out of the drive thru line it was willing to start up and run agian.
I got it home and didn't have the convenience of an obd1 reader so i used the paper clip method. I then saw the light flash once, pause shortly, and then flash twice. then a pause, then flashed once, short pause, flash 3 times. Am i interpreting the codes correctly as 12, and 13?
I got it home and didn't have the convenience of an obd1 reader so i used the paper clip method. I then saw the light flash once, pause shortly, and then flash twice. then a pause, then flashed once, short pause, flash 3 times. Am i interpreting the codes correctly as 12, and 13?
10-18-2009, 07:41 AM
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12:RPM Signal. No G or NE signal is input to the ECM for 2 seconds or more after STA turns ON.
13: RPM Signal NE signal is not input for ECM for 0.1 sec. or more when engine speed is 1,000 rpm or more.
13: RPM Signal NE signal is not input for ECM for 0.1 sec. or more when engine speed is 1,000 rpm or more.
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